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Russia confiscates passports of senior officials to stop defections

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Re: Russia confiscates passports of senior officials to stop defections

#151

Post by medo-bear »

mcv wrote: post #148
medo-bear wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

us certainly profited nicely from this conflict. i also doubt anyone would complain if us suddenly stopped invading and bombing

How? So far, it's just costing everybody, including the US, a lot of money. What profit is there for the US in having Russia destroy entire Ukrainian cities? If Putin thought the US profited too much from this while his own country suffered, maybe he'd stop his war. But his narrative is that the US and the entire West is suffering just as much as Russia and they'll soon give up, so victory is within sight. It's not o…

its so funny when nato fanboys cant see past their own propaganda. here you go

the us arms industry profits

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-01-21/us-arms-industry-mili...

the us gas industry profits

https://www.politico.eu/article/vladimir-putin-war-europe-uk...

all i did is google "us profits from war in ukraine"

also by "us profits" i dont mean the us people profit. the war is costing the us people a lot

in the end if ukraine wins they will be so indebted to us and nato that their independence wont be worth the paper its written on. if they lose, well its definitely gonna be shit for them. talk about being stuck between a rock and a hard place, and all for nothing. whats absolute worst for them is if they win on the battle field and putin decides to wipe them off the face of the earth out of spite. somehow the us is managing to convince ukraine that this isnt a possobilty, just like they convinced them that they will join the eu and nato. apparently putin is a very predictable monster with nuclear morals

i mean honnestly, this is a question for you, what do you see as a realistic outcome for ukraine?

Re: Russia confiscates passports of senior officials to stop defections

#152

Post by medo-bear »

mcv wrote: post #149
medo-bear wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

in 2008 nato said that ukraine will become part of nato. in 2014 the us supported an overthrow of a democraticaly elected ukranian government. i wonder what makes people suspicious

It was the people of Ukraine who overthrew him because he broke his election promise and moved to make Ukraine a vassal of Russia. That is absolutely the last thing the people of Ukraine want, so they had no choice but to overthrow him. I don't think the US had anything to do with it. The only reason NATO says that some day Ukraine can become a member, is because Ukraine keeps asking about it. Constantly. They desper…

you seem to be pretty keen to excuse anything nato does. i think nato purpousefully did a series of things to piss russia off and ukranian people are suffering as a result, being stuck between two imperialism. also are you aware that in 2008 the vast majority of ukranian population opposed joining nato. had ukraine joined then the war would have really been over in three days, i think

Re: Russia confiscates passports of senior officials to stop defections

#153

Post by medo-bear »

mcv wrote: post #150
medo-bear wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm not exactly sure what makes you doubt this well for starters the fact that there is no record of him saying that

There's plenty of record of him doing it, though.

so at best you are just inferring

Re: Russia confiscates passports of senior officials to stop defections

#154

Post by foverzar »

smcl wrote: post #140
foverzar wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's unclear what exactly this helps, other than making them seem incompetent and willing to let people die when it could have been avoided. How exactly is the massive deployment of mobile artillery supposed to result in less deaths? In any case, the end of the war would obviously not be the end of the world. Isn't the whole point of the aid for Ukraine that it is supposed to contain Russia and deplete its military…

The point of the aid is to assist Ukraine in its defence. Whether Putin chooses to continue to exhaust Russian military stockpiles and crater the Russian economy in pursuit of a war that looks increasingly unwinnable is his choice.

> Whether Putin chooses to continue to exhaust Russian military stockpiles and crater the Russian economy in pursuit of a war that looks increasingly unwinnable is his choice.

So yeah, my point to parent asking why Russia might not be throwing everything at once.

Re: Russia confiscates passports of senior officials to stop defections

#155

Post by dudeinjapan »

HopenHeyHi wrote: post #86
dudeinjapan wrote: post #16

In America, agent help you travel overseas. In Soviet Russia, agent help oversee your travel.

This is actually a long standing trope in their own culture, countless examples. For a fun recent one please turn on caption translations and enjoy this short-film/music-video/documentary by Russian band Leningrad: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5bRPTb3z2rU You won't regret it. :)

Watched it, nice one!!

Don't forget about Papers Please https://papersplea.se/

Re: Russia confiscates passports of senior officials to stop defections

#156

Post by mcv »

medo-bear wrote: post #151
mcv wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How? So far, it's just costing everybody, including the US, a lot of money. What profit is there for the US in having Russia destroy entire Ukrainian cities? If Putin thought the US profited too much from this while his own country suffered, maybe he'd stop his war. But his narrative is that the US and the entire West is suffering just as much as Russia and they'll soon give up, so victory is within sight. It's not o…

its so funny when nato fanboys cant see past their own propaganda. here you go the us arms industry profits https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-01-21/us-arms-industry-mili... the us gas industry profits https://www.politico.eu/article/vladimir-putin-war-europe-uk... all i did is google "us profits from war in ukraine" also by "us profits" i dont mean the us people profit. the war is costing the us people a lot in the en…

It's not the US convincing Ukraine, it's Ukraine convincing the US. I don't know if you've noticed, but Zelensky is constantly asking, begging, every country to support Ukraine.

You're trying to spin this as something the US wants, but it's not. It's something Putin wanted. Zelensky and the people of Ukraine are (obviously) far more determined to defend their country than anyone else. And many European countries are mostly supporting Ukraine because their own citizens are demanding that they do so.

There's tons of popular support for Ukraine, because most people recognise the terrible injustice of the Russian invasion and the atrocities committed by Russia.

How things will look after the war is impossible to predict, but US support has helped western Europe quite a lot after WW2. And even the defeated enemies of that war, Germany and Japan, are doing extremely well because of the way they've been rebuilt after the war. In the long run, the best outcome for Russia would probably be to be utterly defeated and rebuilt the same way. But of course that can never happen because Russia has nukes.

Re: Russia confiscates passports of senior officials to stop defections

#157

Post by mcv »

medo-bear wrote: post #152
mcv wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was the people of Ukraine who overthrew him because he broke his election promise and moved to make Ukraine a vassal of Russia. That is absolutely the last thing the people of Ukraine want, so they had no choice but to overthrow him. I don't think the US had anything to do with it. The only reason NATO says that some day Ukraine can become a member, is because Ukraine keeps asking about it. Constantly. They desper…

you seem to be pretty keen to excuse anything nato does. i think nato purpousefully did a series of things to piss russia off and ukranian people are suffering as a result, being stuck between two imperialism. also are you aware that in 2008 the vast majority of ukranian population opposed joining nato. had ukraine joined then the war would have really been over in three days, i think

I'm not excusing NATO, I'm just explaining what happened. Putin fanboys love to pretend that NATO is aggressively expansionist, but it's not. Most of eastern Europe begged to join NATO, to the point that Poland practically blackmailed Clinton into letting them join (which Clinton originally wasn't a fan of).

NATO extended its mutual defense to these countries. The only reason why that should piss off Russia is if Russia had plans to conquer those countries. Turns out they do. But that's not NATO's fault. Don't try to shift the blame to NATO here; this war is entirely, for the full 100%, Putin's fault.

Re: Russia confiscates passports of senior officials to stop defections

#158

Post by mcv »

medo-bear wrote: post #153
mcv wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's plenty of record of him doing it, though.

so at best you are just inferring

I'm looking at his actions, rather than believing the words of a liar.

Just before the war, he said he was not going to invade. Then he did it anyway. His words are meaningless. His actions are what counts. And he obviously did try to take Kyiv. There were paradrops intended to take Kyiv in hours, even. There was a push by more forces to take Kyiv in days. It all failed because they encountered far more serious resistance than they expected, and it turned out they lacked the supplies for a longer operation, and couldn't get those supplies organised in the face Ukrainian defense specifically targeting Russian supply lines. Eventually they couldn't make any progress and withdrew. Though not before murdering lots of civilians in Boucha.

Re: Russia confiscates passports of senior officials to stop defections

#159

Post by medo-bear »

mcv wrote: post #158
medo-bear wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

so at best you are just inferring

I'm looking at his actions, rather than believing the words of a liar. Just before the war, he said he was not going to invade. Then he did it anyway. His words are meaningless. His actions are what counts. And he obviously did try to take Kyiv. There were paradrops intended to take Kyiv in hours, even. There was a push by more forces to take Kyiv in days. It all failed because they encountered far more serious resis…

in 2014 in odesa ukranian nationalists burned protesting students alive. please dont pretend this war is a holywood good vs evil film

Re: Russia confiscates passports of senior officials to stop defections

#160

Post by medo-bear »

mcv wrote: post #156
medo-bear wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

its so funny when nato fanboys cant see past their own propaganda. here you go the us arms industry profits https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-01-21/us-arms-industry-mili... the us gas industry profits https://www.politico.eu/article/vladimir-putin-war-europe-uk... all i did is google "us profits from war in ukraine" also by "us profits" i dont mean the us people profit. the war is costing the us people a lot in the en…

It's not the US convincing Ukraine, it's Ukraine convincing the US. I don't know if you've noticed, but Zelensky is constantly asking, begging , every country to support Ukraine. You're trying to spin this as something the US wants, but it's not. It's something Putin wanted. Zelensky and the people of Ukraine are (obviously) far more determined to defend their country than anyone else. And many European countries are…

you didnt answer my question. what is the end game for ukraine if putin decides to nuke it? you cant rebuild a nuclear wasteland. chernobil will look like an untouched nature reserve in comparison. people need to honest with ukranians in what to expect from this. this is what makes the whole situation tragic
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