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Pursuing status will never bring true happiness

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Re: Pursuing status will never bring true happiness

#111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please show me a new status system. Not just different people on top of an already existing one. I could see brand new status systems existing for, say, a new video game. Everyone starts out equally as newbies and works their way up. Maybe someone could leverage their position in a current status system (such as wealth or free time) to boost their potential in this new system. Brand new industries could create new st…

There's status silos everywhere. Chess, sports, games, prisons, inside companies, inside professions, startups, inside academic disciplines. Each of these status silos shares an abstract similarity. They are groups of people battling it out for their peers' recognition and prestige in a zero-sum contest. The criteria by which prestige is bestowed will vary from silo to silo. So it's up to the players of the game to k…

> In chess, it's competence.

And of course the organizers of chess tournaments also have status. Just as the people who can get things from the outside would have status in a prison.

> Are you sure?

I mean I'm sure I notice it at times. It is nice when others pay positive attention to what I post. Or in real life when people positively value my contributions.

> Maybe you just don't pay attention to conventional status markers.

That would be it. I think it's the "status hierarchy" that I don't pay attention to. My interpersonal status seeking and status noticing is not comparative. One person really valuing something from me is as good as 100. I notice when these hierarchies are pointed out, but I don't find value in them when they're pointed out. And credentialism pisses me off.

Re: Pursuing status will never bring true happiness

#112
post #55

On the one hand, sure, status probably is a trap and won't bring "true happiness." And I think this is well meaning advice. But on the other hand, I think it's possible that an Ivy League educated founder/VC partner/executive coach might not be in the best position to see the whole picture. To paraphrase the Aviator[1], you don't care about status because you've always had it. I think that for many people who have ex…

Status is a completely artificial construct that completely melts away the minute you run out of money. It's an unfair advantage, but it offers no security whatsoever.

Influencers showed that you can get paid just by having status.

Re: Pursuing status will never bring true happiness

#113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is this the 50s where you couldn't get any credit or open a brokerage account even with your good enough single salary if you weren’t white and male, heterosexual? Trying to spark introspection about how all of these things are interrelated, but clearly only to some of us.

Are you implying that the much higher home cost/average income ratio, CEO/worker pay ratio and necessity for households to be dual income to raise families nowadays vs the 50s are due to a lack of racism, sexism, and homophobia from lenders and brokers? The point of the original post was the general lower severe economic disparity in the United States in the 50s vs today. Since the 1980s the Gini coefficient in the U…

No, I'm not implying that.

Re: Pursuing status will never bring true happiness

#114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is an interesting, fallacious take. Basically: one thing about some time in the past was bad, thus everything about it was bad. Higher wealth disparity, based on its impact on social stability, measured independently, is bad. Racism/sexism are bad. The impact of things must be measured separately, so our ideas regarding how to improve society are higher resolution and more accurate.

Is this the 50s where you couldn't get any credit or open a brokerage account even with your good enough single salary if you weren’t white and male, heterosexual? Trying to spark introspection about how all of these things are interrelated, but clearly only to some of us.

Are you implying it is contradictory to wish for both the wealth redistribution levels of the 50's and the human tolerance of now?

Re: Pursuing status will never bring true happiness

#115
Pursuing external validation in whichever form will never bring true happiness. Things that might have been important a thousand years ago and will probably be important to people a thousand years in the future probably translate to happiness

People and marketing mix happiness with joyfulness, which fades into emptiness thus requiring increasingly stronger stimulants.

One test of happiness might be sitting on the grass looking at e.g. the trees or the sea for one hour. If you can't, you are stressed. If you can for ten hours you are depressed.

Re: Pursuing status will never bring true happiness

#116
This question has been central to me for a long time.

Reading Impro by Johnstone and Inner Ring by C.S. Lewis yourself is central to understanding this topic.

First thing to understand is that status follows power law dynamic, instead of being normally distributed. Thus, in social status games, there is typically winner-take-all mentality. The bigger the game, the more the distribution is skewed.

You can easily understand why, if you think about blogs. The first blogs have a huge advantage. Everybody wants to link from the popular ones, so they befriend the people maintaining those blogs. So if you are already popular, people will want to connect to you, so you will get even more popular, as more people join the community.

It is easier to talk about this in the context of social dancing, because the feedback on your status is more immediate and visible. If you have high social status, you are sought after as dance partner by the opposite sex. If you have less than high social status you are either not sought after, or even avoided as dance partner. Interesting thing is that your social status is dynamic, it depends on status of others.

For example, in some dance parties I may be one of the high status males. In other dance parties I can be some of the medium status males. Sometimes I may even be a low status male. If I don't know anybody in a place, then women might be less than willing to take a risk and dance with me. If I cannot easily find a partner, and I am left without a partner, women start thinking there is something wrong with me, and start actively avoiding me. So there is negative status spiral as well.

The thing to understand here is that nothing in my skill has changed. Only the environment has changed. People are highly influenced by the environment. People use the interest of others (i.e. status) as a heuristic to gauge whther they should be interested in somebody (i.e. grant them status).

However, the inner truth here is that ultimately none of this really matters. I am not kinesthetically gifted, my dancing is not visually very attractive, so I cannot get high status by showing off.

My strength is that I appear to be a little bit more emotionally open so that something I call "emotional connection" in the dance happens more often and is deeper. The dancers who are emotionally more open in this sense is actually the circle of "sound craftsmen" which C.S. Lewis talks about. And they recognize each other, regardless of social status. And "emotional connection" is something that really brings happiness in the dance.

Re: Pursuing status will never bring true happiness

#117
post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Status is a completely artificial construct that completely melts away the minute you run out of money. It's an unfair advantage, but it offers no security whatsoever.

Influencers showed that you can get paid just by having status.

And that status can be wiped out whenever google feels like it.

Re: Pursuing status will never bring true happiness

#118
post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The widespread racism and sexism of the 50’s was not “one thing” and it’s not just in the past. There is such a thing as missing the forest for the trees. Socioeconomic status is intersectional.

The point of the original comment that certain common positive aspects of 50s American life, namely single family home ownership, one-income households, and lower CEO/worker pay ratios are less common now. To bring up the point of racism and sexism seems to imply that those amenities were only possible due to racist and sexist structures. Is that what you believe, that the lack of home ownership, massive CEO/worker p…

> seems to imply

It doesn't. It's crucial to understand how the socioeconomic landscape was shaped in context. Policies and historical movements are relevant to the analysis. Social factors such as racism/sexism are considered in "socioeconomic" analysis.

> Is that what you believe

No, I don't follow your reasoning. From an analysis perspective, you claimed that society would benefit from ignoring racism/sexism (social factors) in evaluating "amenities" associated with socioeconomic status. I think this provides lower resolution into issues plaguing society, not higher resolution.

Re: Pursuing status will never bring true happiness

#119

Instead of denying your desire for status, surround yourself with people who will award you status for doing the things you want to accomplish. We have a whole mechanism in our brain dedicated to chasing status — harness it!

> We have a whole mechanism in our brain dedicated to chasing status — harness it!

Yes. The part of our brain that we have in common with monkeys.

Re: Pursuing status will never bring true happiness

#120
post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would define financial security as the ability to pay for your desired lifestyle with minimal perceived risk. Some risk always exists, but it's your perception of it that either puts you at ease or stresses you out. Until a year or so ago, a cushy career at Facebook seemed like a pretty sure thing and the opposite of risky. To others, any single source of income is a massive risk.

Thanks. I have to admit it makes sense. But I'm having a hard time making it concrete like "money in the bank". Could you give an example?

Owning a house, for instance. Having a solid job or a good resume so you can always find a job if you don't like your first, or own your own business that does well so you cannot lose your job and can live freely. Connections so that your business (or job quest) has a good chance of getting good results. A good income stream so you don't run out of money.

A lot of it is centered around money, such is our society.

A lot of things are fleeting, so it is important to also live in a country where the government won't take everything away from you because they don't like your opinion, or living in a country where war is less likely. (There are ways to mitigate these risks).

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