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Pursuing status will never bring true happiness

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Re: Pursuing status will never bring true happiness

#81

Post by atleastoptimal »

robotresearcher wrote: post #73
julianeon wrote: post #50

I think there was a historical change that has complicated our conversation about status. In the 50's, the peak of this, it seemed like many people got a 'deal' that went something like this: you & your work colleagues could afford a house, car, and the costs associated with several children, starting in your 20's. All of those things at a pretty high level actually (ie not a terrible unsafe house, not a broken down…

> So while in the 50's, the advantages to being more high status seemed almost cosmetic Is this the same Fifties with white and colored water fountains, and where women had to leave office jobs when they married?

This is an interesting, fallacious take. Basically: one thing about some time in the past was bad, thus everything about it was bad.

Higher wealth disparity, based on its impact on social stability, measured independently, is bad. Racism/sexism are bad. The impact of things must be measured separately, so our ideas regarding how to improve society are higher resolution and more accurate.

Re: Pursuing status will never bring true happiness

#82

Post by ehnto »

anonymouskimmer wrote: post #31
davnicwil wrote: post #12

When you look at individuals who have achieved things you admire, it's so often true that they themselves came from outside the status system that existed at that time. They now sit within, or atop the current one, but it's often something they themselves have created to a greater or lesser degree. There's a huge lesson there, I think. Being in that position in the current status system is not and never was their goa…

Please show me a new status system. Not just different people on top of an already existing one. I could see brand new status systems existing for, say, a new video game. Everyone starts out equally as newbies and works their way up. Maybe someone could leverage their position in a current status system (such as wealth or free time) to boost their potential in this new system. Brand new industries could create new st…

Calisthenics was not previously the realm of social status, money or prestige, but there is an industry that "gives" people at the top a place to hold status, both social and financial.

I think this happened to a lot of typically very regular low status arenas when the "Influencer" was born, and being good at something non-profitable could now be turned into views, advertising and thus money and fame.

Now every grassroots arena can be converted into a vehicle for money and fame, and you have people famous for lots of non-competitive arenas. Like modifying cars, cycling for fun not racing, just generally being fit... there are people famous for making How To Make a Game videos who are considered authorities on the topic, who have never actually made a game.

Re: Pursuing status will never bring true happiness

#83

Post by yieldcrv »

atleastoptimal wrote: post #81
robotresearcher wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So while in the 50's, the advantages to being more high status seemed almost cosmetic Is this the same Fifties with white and colored water fountains, and where women had to leave office jobs when they married?

This is an interesting, fallacious take. Basically: one thing about some time in the past was bad, thus everything about it was bad. Higher wealth disparity, based on its impact on social stability, measured independently, is bad. Racism/sexism are bad. The impact of things must be measured separately, so our ideas regarding how to improve society are higher resolution and more accurate.

Is this the 50s where you couldn't get any credit or open a brokerage account even with your good enough single salary if you weren’t white and male, heterosexual?

Trying to spark introspection about how all of these things are interrelated, but clearly only to some of us.

Re: Pursuing status will never bring true happiness

#84

Post by apsurd »

ketzo wrote: post #67
davnicwil wrote: post #12

When you look at individuals who have achieved things you admire, it's so often true that they themselves came from outside the status system that existed at that time. They now sit within, or atop the current one, but it's often something they themselves have created to a greater or lesser degree. There's a huge lesson there, I think. Being in that position in the current status system is not and never was their goa…

“Things you admire” is an extraordinarily broad category, so yeah, you probably could. But within the world of VC-backed tech companies, I do think “traditional” status markers are still very influential, and that when you dig into the About pages, the majority of founders/investors/current-high-status individuals come from high status backgrounds. A Yale degree is not the end-all be-all, and “Ex-Google” is not a mag…

> I like writing things as if I know what I'm talking about (I don't)

lol, made me smile. from your bio.

its also important to acknowledge privilege is valuable but not necessary. i know we're saying the same thing but it's important for the people on the other side to see and say it from the other side.

yale, xoogler are more bits of information the gatekeepers use. but not having those bits doesn't exclude oneself from the game. it's hard, being on the outside, i just want to make sure to say it. play another game. make another door. people like brand names. i get it it's a thing. it's just not the only thing.

we choose to all play the same games using the same signals in the same way. looking backwards for trends forward. only we don't have to. because the future is unknown.

Re: Pursuing status will never bring true happiness

#85

Post by atleastoptimal »

davidw wrote: post #70

Status seems like a 'zero sum game'. For me to win, you have to lose. There are a lot of other things where everyone can come out better off, but status is all relative. Kind of like sports, where maybe both teams play really well, but only one is going to win. But at least that's just entertainment at the end of the day.

That's the problem I've always had with competitive, hierarchy based value systems. If we value status relative to other humans as a positive good that must be achieved, then no amount of technological, social, or any kind of progress could ever make things better overall. To reward relative superiority insists that the joy of the few requires the misery of many. Anyone who longs for this kind of structure is one who doesn't care for the betterment of any society or humanity as a whole, but rather relishes the superiority of the successful minority of those who found themselves one day at the top of the pyramid.

Every time we applaud some student who got accepted into Harvard, we are implicitly degrading the quality of all schools below it. Even if we lived in an ideal world where every school were equivalent to Harvard, we would cease to care about admittance to any of them except for the one deemed "the best".

I've read stories about people having "glow ups" and realizing they really were attractive all along, an inspiring tale that requires this lucky individual be placed above every unfortunate ugly person who didn't miraculously grow into their features. The point being that the ostensible value of this kind of story, whenever I read it, seems to be not that the individual "made it" by merit of becoming more attractive than their past self, but rather their success is only valid if they become attractive relative to others.

This kind of thinking is pervasive, yet thematically addictive. The climb above others seems to be self-evidently desirable.

Re: Pursuing status will never bring true happiness

#87

Post by jseliger »

julianeon wrote: post #50

I think there was a historical change that has complicated our conversation about status. In the 50's, the peak of this, it seemed like many people got a 'deal' that went something like this: you & your work colleagues could afford a house, car, and the costs associated with several children, starting in your 20's. All of those things at a pretty high level actually (ie not a terrible unsafe house, not a broken down…

Now the fight is a lot more desperate. Higher status can be the difference between affording a house, or not

This is a tragic statement on the way we've made abundance illegal and mandated scarcity instead—points further articulated in more detail here: https://worksinprogress.co/issue/the-housing-theory-of-every...

Re: Pursuing status will never bring true happiness

#88

Post by speakfreely »

baxtr wrote: post #80
Clubber wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I think that pursuit of status is a rational way to increase security. I agree, I would recommend increasing security as the priority, not status. Status doesn't pay the bills necessarily when the recessions hit, security does. If you can get security without status, that's better than status without security.

What’s “security”? Money in the bank?

I would define financial security as the ability to pay for your desired lifestyle with minimal perceived risk. Some risk always exists, but it's your perception of it that either puts you at ease or stresses you out.

Until a year or so ago, a cushy career at Facebook seemed like a pretty sure thing and the opposite of risky. To others, any single source of income is a massive risk.

Re: Pursuing status will never bring true happiness

#89

Post by apsurd »

fogzen wrote: post #26
toomuchtodo wrote: post #7

https://twitter.com/naval/status/1002103497725173760 > Seek wealth, not money or status. Wealth is having assets that earn while you sleep. Money is how we transfer time and wealth. Status is your place in the social hierarchy. https://twitter.com/naval/status/1002103627387813888 > Ignore people playing status games. They gain status by attacking people playing wealth creation games. From @naval’s Twitter thread “how…

Material wealth is status. Money is status. Assets that earn while you sleep is status. Money is arguably the ultimate status game.

adding onto the "disagree" siblings. that money is status is far too simplistic.

plenty of people are simply not impressed by money. it's not even really a concerted thought, it's just a matter of different strokes for diff folks. people have all sorts of tribes. money is really just one. just a gawdy obnoxious one.

Re: Pursuing status will never bring true happiness

#90

Post by DesiLurker »

tqi wrote: post #55

On the one hand, sure, status probably is a trap and won't bring "true happiness." And I think this is well meaning advice. But on the other hand, I think it's possible that an Ivy League educated founder/VC partner/executive coach might not be in the best position to see the whole picture. To paraphrase the Aviator[1], you don't care about status because you've always had it. I think that for many people who have ex…

I'd argue they are probably in the best position to talk about the 'empty bowl' status is. I mean if you switch to the admin-view for a moment, status is basically the increasingly rare thing that others cant have by definition. that is statistically impossibly for commoners to have. and their advice of seeking contentment can/is always countered with 'sour grapes' style retort. We need more calming message from people who have been there and done it. after all I dont really need to get a Range-rover when my Hyundai gives me most of what I want.
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