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Paris votes to ban rental e-scooters

france24.com

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Re: Paris votes to ban rental e-scooters

#131

Post by eesmith »

Tarrosion wrote: post #105

The discussion around shared e-scooters (and similar micromobility) tends to have a ton of hidden status quo bias. For example, one of the most common complaints about e-scooters is that people leave them all over the place and they clutter sidewalks. This can be a true and valid complaint! But people do that, in part, because cities don't provide good alternatives. A city the size of Paris probably has literally mil…

Please use the right name.

These are rental e-scooters. It's not like a scooter shared between friends with no profit motive involved.

> because cities don't provide good alternatives

Strong counter-point. In my city there is a decent amount of bike parking. Yet I've often seen scooters not parked at a nearby bike parking area, even though there's space.

I got very angry with a guy last summer who left his rental e-scooter in the middle of the park pathway next to me, when available bike parking was about 30 feet away. Anyone with a stroller or walker would have had to go on the grass to get around it.

And e-scooter parking seems to take up more width than bicycles. I've seen people park their (non-shared/non-rental) bikes at the edge of the sidewalk, either against a building wall, or against a sign.

They often leave a lot of space between the rental e-scooter and the wall, because people get off a scooter with feet on both sides of the scooter, and because it's too bulky to scooch over to the side, thus blocking more of the sidewalk.

Certainly cars take of an undue amount of space. But that doesn't mean you can assert that cities like Paris only have car parking as the alternative, when they also have bike parking, and have been active in switching away from cars.

Re: Paris votes to ban rental e-scooters

#132

Post by solatic »

Here in Tel Aviv, they'll never get rid of them for at least one reason: they're the only form of at-least-semi-public transportation available on the weekend (Shabbat) and Jewish holidays, when the law forbids buses and trains from running.

Meet a date at 10 PM on Friday night? Scoot. Catch the Saturday 5 AM tour bus to a day-hike that's meeting on the other side of town? Scoot.

They've also helped boost demand for better bike-lane infrastructure, which has gotten much better in the last 5-10 years.

I rarely use them, but I'm glad they exist.

Re: Paris votes to ban rental e-scooters

#133

Post by petre »

arijun wrote: post #47

I would like to provide a contrasting viewpoint. I can’t speak to the situation in Paris, but in the city I live in, scooters are amazing. They reduce car usage which is better for both pedestrians and car users. They turn a 45 minute walk/30 minute bus ride/20 minute cab into a 10-15 minute trip, which opens up much more of the city (the city I live in was not built for the number of cars it has in it so getting any…

I think that their weight and speed and where one can park them needs to be regulated. Hungary has at least done the last bit in Budapest with rectangles marked in green on the sidewalk. City councils can also rent out this space, preventing scooter chaos. They're also overbuilt for anti vandalism, weighting over 20 kilos. If one hits a pedestrian with a rental scooter, it can cause bad injuries. High speed also puts the scooter operator in danger. Since it's a rental, nobody wears a helmet and almost everybody drives them irresponsibly. Limiting their mass and speed would limit their impact energy.

Re: Paris votes to ban rental e-scooters

#134

Post by DoingIsLearning »

HWR_14 wrote: post #125
arijun wrote: post #47

I would like to provide a contrasting viewpoint. I can’t speak to the situation in Paris, but in the city I live in, scooters are amazing. They reduce car usage which is better for both pedestrians and car users. They turn a 45 minute walk/30 minute bus ride/20 minute cab into a 10-15 minute trip, which opens up much more of the city (the city I live in was not built for the number of cars it has in it so getting any…

No one is contending that using scooters is bad for the user. They are saying a bunch of drunk users are using them recklessly for non-users and are getting in people's way by parking them all over the sidewalks and streets. An aggressive ticketing campaign isn't very helpful in a city with a lot of tourists, because they'll just go home without having paid the ticket. Is Interpol going to seek out 30 euros?

> An aggressive ticketing campaign isn't very helpful in a city with a lot of tourists, because they'll just go home without having paid the ticket. Is Interpol going to seek out 30 euros?

I have proposed this before in my city, ticket the e-scoter company for improper parking not the users.

Most of these business have gps trackers on them they will quickly find a way to enforce proper parking onto users.

We need to stop externalizing problems away from companies.

Re: Paris votes to ban rental e-scooters

#135

Post by Freak_NL »

Gigachad wrote: post #69
mkl95 wrote: post #58

I've lived in a couple of large cities where scooters and bikes shared the same space. I see little to no advantage over bikes, and scooters are way more dangerous.

The main advantage imo is you can bring them on trains and in elevators much easier than bikes. And for the rental ones, you don't have to worry about bringing anything or having to secure it on the other end.

> The main advantage imo is you can bring them on trains and in elevators much easier than bikes.

Like a folding bike.

Re: Paris votes to ban rental e-scooters

#136

Post by isbvhodnvemrwvn »

Freak_NL wrote: post #135
Gigachad wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The main advantage imo is you can bring them on trains and in elevators much easier than bikes. And for the rental ones, you don't have to worry about bringing anything or having to secure it on the other end.

> The main advantage imo is you can bring them on trains and in elevators much easier than bikes. Like a folding bike.

Folding bikes are much more expensive, especially electric.

Re: Paris votes to ban rental e-scooters

#137

Post by ChuckNorris89 »

DoingIsLearning wrote: post #134
HWR_14 wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No one is contending that using scooters is bad for the user. They are saying a bunch of drunk users are using them recklessly for non-users and are getting in people's way by parking them all over the sidewalks and streets. An aggressive ticketing campaign isn't very helpful in a city with a lot of tourists, because they'll just go home without having paid the ticket. Is Interpol going to seek out 30 euros?

> An aggressive ticketing campaign isn't very helpful in a city with a lot of tourists, because they'll just go home without having paid the ticket. Is Interpol going to seek out 30 euros? I have proposed this before in my city, ticket the e-scoter company for improper parking not the users. Most of these business have gps trackers on them they will quickly find a way to enforce proper parking onto users. We need to…

>Most of these business have gps trackers on them they will quickly find a way to enforce proper parking onto users.

BINGO!

Haven't parked your scooter in the designated area? -10 Euros fee on your credit card.

Driving recklessly on the scooter? -30 Euros fee.

Re: Paris votes to ban rental e-scooters

#138

Post by officehero »

GoToRO wrote: post #65

Instead of banning cars, they banned rental e-scooters...

Yes, I get sad when I read most comments here. The way people have been indoctrinated with car-culture is just astounding. E scooters are like a drop in the ocean compared to the damage caused by cars: the space they occupy, the pollution they cause (mostly noise pollution). Cars have killed city-life and people are blind to it.

Re: Paris votes to ban rental e-scooters

#139

Post by jacquesm »

theonlybutlet wrote: post #120

I think with perhaps less scooters and a more formal parking system akin to bike rental lockstands, the escooters could've continued to work in Paris. Problem was the place was littered with them, often piled up like fallen dominos on pavements blocking the walking path. They were really navigating a city that size.

I always wonder what's going on in the mind of someone who leaves their scooter to block the sidewalk. Besides the obvious example of blind people having to navigate this obstacle course the same goes for the elderly, people in wheelchairs and so on. And these scooters are the things that block the sidewalk even in a city with plenty of bikes (such as Amsterdam) because there is no sense of responsibility associated with their use. When you're done you just need to get rid of it as though it is a disposable rather than a vehicle.

Re: Paris votes to ban rental e-scooters

#140

Post by jacquesm »

noahtallen wrote: post #107
shtopointo wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are banned from sidewalks.

E scooters are just as banned from sidewalks as bikes?

There's scooters and scooters. It's a bit of a misnomer but there are electric scooters that are like a Vespa scooter ('Absolute beginners') and there are electric scooters that are the ones that your kid would ride when they're 5 or so (plank with two wheels, you stand on the plank and 'scoot' with your other leg). The e-scooter of the latter variety is what is of concern here, ~20kg + rider moving at ~20kph (sometimes faster).

The former is definitely banned from sidewalks (though they are often parked there), the other is used on sidewalks quite frequently, in spite of that not being legal. They have shitty small wheels and are pretty dangerous for both rider and pedestrians.

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