Paris votes to ban rental e-scooters • Hacker News Board

Re: Paris votes to ban rental e-scooters

#111

Post by msla » Mon, Apr 03, 2023, 4:47 AM UTC

Tarrosion wrote: post #105

The discussion around shared e-scooters (and similar micromobility) tends to have a ton of hidden status quo bias. For example, one of the most common complaints about e-scooters is that people leave them all over the place and they clutter sidewalks. This can be a true and valid complaint! But people do that, in part, because cities don't provide good alternatives. A city the size of Paris probably has literally mil…

> Each car-sized parking spot can fit 12 scooters.

So if you take someone's parking spot, they just have to destroy a dozen scooters to get it back?

Can do!

Re: Paris votes to ban rental e-scooters

#112

Post by qball » Mon, Apr 03, 2023, 4:55 AM UTC

flak48 wrote: post #9

London meanwhile, continues to ban personally owned e-scooters - allowing only rental e-scooters!

Seems like a very British solution to me (being a nation that cares little for liberty); if the police have had enough being constantly called to deal with another 10 being stolen today I'm not surprised they'd only permit company vehicles.

After all, there's no economic value to be gained in stealing them and the insurance premiums for destruction (including simply throwing them into the Thames) is distributed across the customer base. If there are thieves stealing them for parts they'll be easier to detect (since it's not plausibly deniable to claim a company scooter is yours).

Combine that with the fact that it'd be trivial to disable all transport in the case of civil unrest, and you seem to have a winning policy for Londoners.

Re: Paris votes to ban rental e-scooters

#113

Post by stametseater » Mon, Apr 03, 2023, 4:56 AM UTC

goatlover wrote: post #108

stametseater wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The biggest friction is not the app, but rather needing to leave home carrying a bike helmet every day on the off chance that you want to use one of these scooters. I don't even ride a bike without a helmet and these scooters are much more dangerous than a bike (small wheels far below the rider's center of mass, inherently dangerous.) The market for helmet-less scooter rides anywhere, let alone on hard surfaced stree…

I rarely ever see anyone, even parents with kids, wear a helmet while using a scooter. The police do not enforce any sort of law regarding them as far as I can tell. The only time I've seen helmets are on what look like privately owned scooters. That's just places I've been, so maybe it's different elsewhere that allows them.

Yes, I don't think I've ever seen somebody wearing a helmet while riding a lime scooter. I don't think there are any laws to require helmets for scooters in my city, and helmets aren't provided with the rentals, so anybody wearing a helmet while riding one is certainly a rare exception. And I've already seen a man crack his skull this way riding a lime scooter. Sad, but not surprising. It probably happens a lot. It almost makes me think we need "attractive nuisance" laws to protect young dumb adults.

Re: Paris votes to ban rental e-scooters

#114

Post by ouid » Mon, Apr 03, 2023, 5:02 AM UTC

rhaway84773 wrote: post #83

arijun wrote: post #47

I would like to provide a contrasting viewpoint. I can’t speak to the situation in Paris, but in the city I live in, scooters are amazing. They reduce car usage which is better for both pedestrians and car users. They turn a 45 minute walk/30 minute bus ride/20 minute cab into a 10-15 minute trip, which opens up much more of the city (the city I live in was not built for the number of cars it has in it so getting any…

The real problem with scooters is cuties unwilling to provide them with proper infrastructure. Bike lanes in most cities (out of the better European cycling cities), tend to be narrow and about 1/4 - 1/3 the size of a car lane. If a city were to dedicate a single car lane sized lane for “micromobility” and responded quickly to damage to this lane (which wouldn’t be as frequent for the obvious reason that damage is pr…

You can't add a lane for every "new" mode of transportation...

Re: Paris votes to ban rental e-scooters

#115

Post by amrocha » Mon, Apr 03, 2023, 5:03 AM UTC

gpvos wrote: post #51

iLoveOncall wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You've never been to Paris, have you? It's a death trap for cyclists.

When were you there last? I hear the city has almost completely transformed itself when it comes to bicycle infrastructure in the last two to three years.

In in Paris right now and unfortunately it's still pretty bad. I'm sure there's certain arrondissements that have good access, but it's not the whole city, and riding on the road is so dangerous I only ever see delivery drivers do it.

Can't wait to get back to Tokyo, where even moms feel safe riding on main roads.

Re: Paris votes to ban rental e-scooters

#116

Post by deanc » Mon, Apr 03, 2023, 5:10 AM UTC

stametseater wrote: post #75

londons_explore wrote: post #38

Rental scooters are often competing with walking. A 10 minute walk might perhaps be a 2 minute scoot. Great. But in my city, for every 1 scooter ride, you will see 100 pedestrians walk past. Ie. they have a sub-1% market share. And the scooters are idle >95% of the time. I suspect, the friction of needing an app is too high. The complex signup process needing a driving license is too complex. The pricing (multiple do…

The biggest friction is not the app, but rather needing to leave home carrying a bike helmet every day on the off chance that you want to use one of these scooters. I don't even ride a bike without a helmet and these scooters are much more dangerous than a bike (small wheels far below the rider's center of mass, inherently dangerous.) The market for helmet-less scooter rides anywhere, let alone on hard surfaced stree…

I fell off one at 10km.h in my city going through a slow zone when it suddenly accelerated. I fell face first and broke my wrist. These things are lethal and it could have been a lot worse. Lesson learnt and I won’t go near one again - even with a helmet.

Re: Paris votes to ban rental e-scooters

#117

Post by deanc » Mon, Apr 03, 2023, 5:12 AM UTC

fsh wrote: post #20

shtopointo wrote: post #2

Excellent vote from the people of Paris! It's too easy to take these things on the sidewalk, go 20mph and disregard the people around you. Those things also weight quite a bit, so getting hit with that may be life altering.

They are electronically limited to 20 km/h in Paris and weigh no more than a bicycle.

Practically all their weight is at the base. Your ankles or legs will be shattered if you’re hit by one.

Re: Paris votes to ban rental e-scooters

#118

Post by lannisterstark » Mon, Apr 03, 2023, 5:12 AM UTC

twelve40 wrote: post #16

> She said on Sunday that their business model was "very expensive -- five euros for 10 minutes -- it's not very sustainable, and above all, it's the cause of a lot of accidents." It must be great to have a wise mayor in the government who calls out "expensive business models". > currently be hired by children as young as 12 When I went there, I read the Lime, Dott, etc rules and they all said 16, some 18+. Where did…

>wise mayor in the government who calls out "expensive business models".

funny considering the govt is the most expensive business model out there.

Re: Paris votes to ban rental e-scooters

#119

Post by lannisterstark » Mon, Apr 03, 2023, 5:13 AM UTC

mlok wrote: post #42

sharperguy wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who regularly uses them I would be very sad if they were banned. It is a very convienient mode of transport and can often cut journey times in half for me compared to public transport. I also ride a bike but I don't always have it with me, or want to lock up my bike somewhere overnight and risk having it stolen. I think it would be unfair to punish responsable users because of a few bad apples. Half of the…

Paris has a pretty good shared bike service, there is no need for a personal bike.

>there is no need for a personal bike.

Ah, are we extending the "no one needs an x" to personal bicycles now? What's next, shared spoons?

Re: Paris votes to ban rental e-scooters

#120

Post by theonlybutlet » Mon, Apr 03, 2023, 5:14 AM UTC

I think with perhaps less scooters and a more formal parking system akin to bike rental lockstands, the escooters could've continued to work in Paris. Problem was the place was littered with them, often piled up like fallen dominos on pavements blocking the walking path. They were really navigating a city that size.