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For the first time, renewable energy generation beat out coal in the US

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Re: For the first time, renewable energy generation beat out coal in the US

#201

Post by ericmay »

melling wrote: post #99
ericmay wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Replacing over a billion ICE cars seems with EV’s is going to be so much more work, for example. Instead we could replace ICE cars with no cars and get much more bang for our buck. A few changes to how we build so that you can walk/bike within 15 minutes for many daily needs would reduce energy consumption, save families money, still allow for a car, and everyone would be much happier and healthier. Cars for all tr…

How about reporting back once you’ve convinced a billion people to change their habits? If we can’t replace a few thousand coal plants, we are unlikely to… People wouldn’t even notice the difference if we replaced coal power plants.

> How about reporting back once you’ve convinced a billion people to change their habits?

For better or worse they’ll be forced out of their habits against their wishes because the economic physics just doesn’t work. Unless of course they are ready and willing to go to war and to exterminate populations for resources.

Ideally we avoid a lot of that by just building sidewalks and planning now, but to your point - can’t convince people. Who moved my cheese? Boomer central, etc.

Re: For the first time, renewable energy generation beat out coal in the US

#202

Post by peoplefromibiza »

rcarr wrote: post #160
peoplefromibiza wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honest question: so why aren't iPhones cheap? EDIT: thanks for all the answers, IIUC it boils down to "nobody cares if a luxury item from a western company is built on slavery, the only thing that matters is that poor people who built it cannot afford it"

Because you’re not just paying for a physical device. You’re also paying for the software that runs on it which is best in class. And before people start saying it’s not, how many people are running 7 year old androids compared to iPhones? In USD, A brand new iPhone, kept for 7 years works out at 32 cents a day - phenomenally cheap for something integral to modern day life. And that’s not even taking into account you…

> how many people are running 7 year old androids

Ironically, me.

I changed the battery last year, it costed me 13$ (~12 euros), it is as good as new.

Now it might be that my Android phone is Chinese as well, so it actually costed me less than 10¢ a day. Even if I had to replace my Android smartphone, I could have changed it 3 times in the past 7 years and still spend less than buying an iPhone that lasted me 7 years.

I could still easily sell it for 30-40 euros, making it even cheaper.

Re: For the first time, renewable energy generation beat out coal in the US

#203

Post by Paradigma11 »

tut-urut-utut wrote: post #195
goodluckchuck wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hegemony is inevitable, prosperous, and peaceful. Anyone who would challenge US hegemony would either intend to establish themselves their own hegemony or would be patsies creating a situation where another force could do so. Do would we be better off under a global islamic caliphate deriving from afghanistan, iraq, libya, etc… or a Chinese hegemoney, or a German hegemony? I’d put American hegemony up against any civ…

For the Americans. In the meanwhile, the rest of the world is so sick of your hegemony, it would rather see anyone else, or better yet, state of a never ending direct fight between the contenders while the rest of the world is left alone. Something like Star Trek no involvement rule.

Usually the contenders dont fight in their own countries but in the rest of the world using proxy wars.

Re: For the first time, renewable energy generation beat out coal in the US

#204

Post by adrianN »

agentgumshoe wrote: post #33
adrianN wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I'm fast coming to the conclusion that all renewable tech is about allowing the government to have deep control over your energy, and to put you in a situation where you are forced to buy very expensive gear from mega-corps." That sounds like unfounded paranoia. It has literally never been easier to be an energy-independent anarchist living in a hut somewhere than today.

It was very easy actually before people decided electricity is nifty. It's quite expensive to do now if you don't want a reasonably large shift in lifestyle in doing so.

I'd argue that living without a fridge, a washing machine, a heat pump, smoke free light and a car is more difficult than having those things.

Re: For the first time, renewable energy generation beat out coal in the US

#205

Post by pyrale »

epistasis wrote: post #95
simplicio wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't really understand the advantage of rooftop solar over just putting the same number of solar panels in a field somewhere. Id think it would be a lot cheaper to install the panels in one-place then having to distribute them to a bunch of differently shaped and oriented roof tops, and cheaper to have a few large inverters instead of a bunch of small ones.

Electrical transmission and distribution costs dwarf the cost of solar generation, 1x-5x the cost of solar generation, and you have to beef all that up for utility scale solar. Also, the interconnection queues for attaching your project to the grid are getting astronomically long now, and this is one of the biggest impediments to new renewable generation. One of the most valuable assets of a coal generation sites is…

I'm honestly surprised about transmission and distribution costs dwarfing other costs. In my country, it's about 30% of power cost, and power generation costs here are pretty cheap, considering they've been amortized for a while now.

Are you working in an area with a low consumer density?

> Also, the interconnection queues for attaching your project to the grid are getting astronomically long now, and this is one of the biggest impediments to new renewable generation.

Yeah, that's unsurprising. Power Grids are not something that adapts fast to topological change.

Re: For the first time, renewable energy generation beat out coal in the US

#206

Post by dgacmu »

somesortofsystm wrote: post #185
nroets wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why should the US try to lead solar panel technology ? China has many talented engineers and plenty of venture capital. I'd prefer them to invest it in solar panel manufacturing and power electronics rather than social media, ai or Telco technology.

Just stop. China as a manufacturing solution for anyone but the people of the region must cease. It is utterly inefficient to produce stuff far, far from where it will be used. Spreading things out like this is balls. Lets start building again. If we're to get off this dust-ball, we have to learn to do things ourselves, again.

That's not necessarily true. Shipping (via ocean) of finished expensive small products is cheap and quite low carbon on a per device basis as long as you don't mind the delay. One of the reasons china is the place to manufacture is that the electronics manufacturing _inputs_ are now concentrated there, as is the know-how.

Re: For the first time, renewable energy generation beat out coal in the US

#207

Post by adrianN »

rapsey wrote: post #136
nroets wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why should the US try to lead solar panel technology ? China has many talented engineers and plenty of venture capital. I'd prefer them to invest it in solar panel manufacturing and power electronics rather than social media, ai or Telco technology.

Chinese panels are cheap because they use slave labor to produce them.

How many people actually work in a solar panel factory? I'd expect that to be almost completely automated.

Re: For the first time, renewable energy generation beat out coal in the US

#208

Post by pyrale »

kragen wrote: post #119
acidburnNSA wrote: post #110

This would be better news if coal wasn't also being replaced by new fossil gas plants like crazy. If you look at coal vs fossil gas in the US it's a lot more depressing. https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=48896 The fraction of energy that comes from low carbon sources is what matters.

i have the impression that gas produces something like 40 percent less co₂ per joule than coal? in some sense that's 'low carbon'

> in some sense that's 'low carbon'

It doesn't in a sense that meaningfully addresses the challenges we're facing, though.

Re: For the first time, renewable energy generation beat out coal in the US

#209

Post by newyankee »

somesortofsystm wrote: post #185
nroets wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why should the US try to lead solar panel technology ? China has many talented engineers and plenty of venture capital. I'd prefer them to invest it in solar panel manufacturing and power electronics rather than social media, ai or Telco technology.

Just stop. China as a manufacturing solution for anyone but the people of the region must cease. It is utterly inefficient to produce stuff far, far from where it will be used. Spreading things out like this is balls. Lets start building again. If we're to get off this dust-ball, we have to learn to do things ourselves, again.

It also depends on the weight, volume and nature of the product (whether perishable)

Re: For the first time, renewable energy generation beat out coal in the US

#210

Post by bialpio »

peoplefromibiza wrote: post #155
rapsey wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Chinese panels are cheap because they use slave labor to produce them.

Honest question: so why aren't iPhones cheap? EDIT: thanks for all the answers, IIUC it boils down to "nobody cares if a luxury item from a western company is built on slavery, the only thing that matters is that poor people who built it cannot afford it"

I have experienced a culture shock after moving to the US and looking at prices for some items. The best summary I have is "in USA, the thing is worth as much as people are willing to pay for it", unlike the previous mindset I had, roughly "take the cost of producing something and add X% markup" where X is not too high.
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