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For the first time, renewable energy generation beat out coal in the US

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Re: For the first time, renewable energy generation beat out coal in the US

#181

Post by goatlover »

tnel77 wrote: post #40
jokoon wrote: post #2

It doesn't really matter if renewable generated more energy than coal for 1 day. What matters is annual generation. Renewables generates 5 times less than coal annually and still peak for a short period of time, so this is not a big progress. Wind turbines can have big energy peaks when it's very windy, but there is no cheap way to store that energy for a long period of time, WHICH IS WHY NUCLEAR IS THE GREENEST BASE…

Nuclear is obviously an amazing source of energy, but the stigma is insane. In high school, my Chem II class had an assignment where pairs of kids had to present on why nuclear was good or bad. Of 16 or so kids, only my friend and I presented on why nuclear energy was good. Even the chemistry teacher was against nuclear energy. Edit: This was in rural USA.

It's wild how bad the reputation of nuclear energy has been, when the alternative has largely been fossil fuels. It's really not that dangerous relative to source for 80% of energy production the world still relies on.

Re: For the first time, renewable energy generation beat out coal in the US

#182

Post by gibbonsrcool »

lube wrote: post #165
rainsford wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Relying on a non-friendly country for something so crucial as energy is generally not a great position to be in, particularly if that country has rival world power ambitions. Europe and Russia have provided a great recent example of why you don't want to be reliant on potential enemies for your energy needs, and while the situation between the US and China is not the same and solar is different than fossil fuels, it'…

I think your vision is too US centric, US hegemony lead to disruptions to foreign nations like afghanistan, iraq, libya, etc. My pov from latinamerica is that my country could be next, and neither your culture nor your "business class" seems the future(we reflect your cultural hegemony with our version of shitty role models), si why not challenge US hegemony?

The second biggest geopolitical opponent to the US, Russia, is in major decline. Their primary opponent, China, is slowing down and has enormous domestic problems to deal with that are projected to worsen for a long period of time. The US was supposed to be behind in AI research, but technologically, they're ahead. I believe that once AI is used to exert geopolitical pressure, economically or through counter action, it will be a runaway advantage. If this were Star Wars I think we'd be at the point where we were only starting to see the rise of the Empire.

Re: For the first time, renewable energy generation beat out coal in the US

#183

Post by goodluckchuck »

lube wrote: post #165
rainsford wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Relying on a non-friendly country for something so crucial as energy is generally not a great position to be in, particularly if that country has rival world power ambitions. Europe and Russia have provided a great recent example of why you don't want to be reliant on potential enemies for your energy needs, and while the situation between the US and China is not the same and solar is different than fossil fuels, it'…

I think your vision is too US centric, US hegemony lead to disruptions to foreign nations like afghanistan, iraq, libya, etc. My pov from latinamerica is that my country could be next, and neither your culture nor your "business class" seems the future(we reflect your cultural hegemony with our version of shitty role models), si why not challenge US hegemony?

Hegemony is inevitable, prosperous, and peaceful. Anyone who would challenge US hegemony would either intend to establish themselves their own hegemony or would be patsies creating a situation where another force could do so. Do would we be better off under a global islamic caliphate deriving from afghanistan, iraq, libya, etc… or a Chinese hegemoney, or a German hegemony? I’d put American hegemony up against any civilization that the world has ever seen in terms of equity, prosperity, and peace.

Re: For the first time, renewable energy generation beat out coal in the US

#184

Post by bufferoverflow »

photochemsyn wrote: post #106

This would have happened a bit earlier if the most efficient and long-lasting solar panels, monocrystalline silicon, had been developed by US manufacturers instead of by Chinese ones. All the tariffs applied by state and federal regulators on the import of these panels have been about slowing the rate of solar PV production in the USA on behalf of the fossil fuel and investor-owned utility sectors. https://www.pv-mag…

You're forgetting labor costs in the US are much higher and environmental regulations are much more strict. So US made panels will unlikely to ever be price competitive with the Chinese made ones.

Re: For the first time, renewable energy generation beat out coal in the US

#185

Post by somesortofsystm »

nroets wrote: post #116
photochemsyn wrote: post #106

This would have happened a bit earlier if the most efficient and long-lasting solar panels, monocrystalline silicon, had been developed by US manufacturers instead of by Chinese ones. All the tariffs applied by state and federal regulators on the import of these panels have been about slowing the rate of solar PV production in the USA on behalf of the fossil fuel and investor-owned utility sectors. https://www.pv-mag…

Why should the US try to lead solar panel technology ? China has many talented engineers and plenty of venture capital. I'd prefer them to invest it in solar panel manufacturing and power electronics rather than social media, ai or Telco technology.

Just stop. China as a manufacturing solution for anyone but the people of the region must cease.

It is utterly inefficient to produce stuff far, far from where it will be used.

Spreading things out like this is balls.

Lets start building again. If we're to get off this dust-ball, we have to learn to do things ourselves, again.

Re: For the first time, renewable energy generation beat out coal in the US

#186

Post by adrianN »

goatlover wrote: post #169
adrianN wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"A crazy rate" that is unfortunately still much too slow to limit warming to 2° or below.

Was limiting warning below 2° ever realistic? I can't understand why 1.5° when it was clear to everyone that there was no way in hell that is happening. Why not set a realistic goal and try to figure out the best way to deal with the consequences?

We've known about climate change for at least fifty years now. Every goal we set since then has been "realistic" with considerable effort. Unfortunately we never even attempted to reach them, so we raise the goal by a degree or two every decade or two.

Re: For the first time, renewable energy generation beat out coal in the US

#187

Post by kodah »

lube wrote: post #165
rainsford wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Relying on a non-friendly country for something so crucial as energy is generally not a great position to be in, particularly if that country has rival world power ambitions. Europe and Russia have provided a great recent example of why you don't want to be reliant on potential enemies for your energy needs, and while the situation between the US and China is not the same and solar is different than fossil fuels, it'…

I think your vision is too US centric, US hegemony lead to disruptions to foreign nations like afghanistan, iraq, libya, etc. My pov from latinamerica is that my country could be next, and neither your culture nor your "business class" seems the future(we reflect your cultural hegemony with our version of shitty role models), si why not challenge US hegemony?

Latin American oil processing is at an all time high.

Latin America: https://www.statista.com/statistics/961585/latin-america-cru...

US: https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafHandler.ashx?n=PET&s=M...

Every government has to think about energy independence, of which oil production is part of that story. Our oil economics are also intertwined with US policy, which renewables are helping undo in the US. That's to say, US society is trying to put a cap on how energy independence involves in conflict either directly or indirectly.

Latin Americas story is different: https://www.sscnet.ucla.edu/polisci/faculty/ross/papers/work...

> Abstract: In Africa, Asia, and the Middle East, oil-producing countries have civil wars at a significantly higher rate than countries without oil. Is there also a link between oil and armed rebellion in Latin America?

> I argue the answer is “yes,” but with an important qualification. In the rest of the world, oil heightens the danger of both “governmental” conflicts (over control of the existing state) and secessionist conflicts (to form new states); but in Latin America, oil is only linked to governmental conflicts. This is not because Latin American petroleum has unusual properties, but because the region is uniquely “secession-proof”: there have been no separatist conflicts in Latin America for over a century. I explore two possible explanations for this anomaly: the region’s long history of sovereign statehood, which may have caused national borders to become more widely-accepted; and obstacles to the mobilization of indigenous groups along ethnic lines.

Tldr; instead of getting involved in foreign wars to save your oil supply, it's cheaper to centralize the oppression back home.

Re: For the first time, renewable energy generation beat out coal in the US

#188

Post by landemva »

kragen wrote: post #168
landemva wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who transmits electricity to the house at night? The lines will be sized for full loads.

transmission lines do not connect to houses, so it is not clear that you understand the distinction i am asking about

There are various lines at various voltages. Some are 18k+. In commercial manufacturing may be 13.8k, which is further stepped down to 480 and 220 and 110.

The point is that unless a residence can independently provide for their own electricity every hour of the day, then the generation and distribution will be sized for full load.

Re: For the first time, renewable energy generation beat out coal in the US

#189

Post by kragen »

acidburnNSA wrote: post #170
kragen wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i wish they'd use si units like kilograms per joule, or joules per kilogram, which works out to s²/m² and permits direct comparison with the energy density of fuels a kilowatt hour per 800 g works out to 4.5 megajoules per kilogram, which makes it easy to see that we're in the right ballpark (the energy density of coal itself is less than an order of magnitude higher) and that we're talking about delivered work rathe…

I disagree. Sometimes when you're trying to quantify something specific, it's best to use units that are topical. If you want to talk about how much CO₂ the production of a kWh of electricity (not heat) that different sources of electricity use, mass CO₂ per kWh electric generated is the most useful and intuitive unit. Differences in thermal efficiency, etc. do not matter if you're focused on getting a kWh-electric f…

the difference between kilowatt hours per gram and joules per kilogram also does not matter if you're focused on getting a kilowatt hour electric for the smallest amount of lifecycle carbon dioxide; a kilowatt hour per gram is precisely 3.6 gigajoules per kilogram, nothing more, nothing less. the only benefit of using the 'topical' units is an unnecessary risk of calculation errors and other kinds of confusion

this nonsense about topical units is the reason that medieval merchants would measure certain kinds of cloth in flemish ells of 27 inches and other kinds of cloth in english ells of 45 inches; silver was weighed in troy ounces of 480 grains, drugs were weighed in apothecaries' drams of 60 grains (or apothecaries' ounces, which were the same as troy ounces), and foods were weighed in drams of about 27.3 drams, or avoirdupois ounces of 437½ grains

kilowatt hours and grams per kilowatt hour are the modern equivalent of apothecaries' drams

Re: For the first time, renewable energy generation beat out coal in the US

#190

Post by megaman821 »

Georgelemental wrote: post #133
adrianN wrote: post #7

Nice. The economics of renewables are really hard to beat. I hope we speed up the construction speed and at the same time electrify more sectors.

The economics of renewables are hard to beat until night falls and the wind stops blowing, at which point the cost jumps to $infinity/MWh

Another way to look at it, renewables are so cheap 100% renewable usage will be dominated by grid-scale battery cost. What is the magnitude of battery price drops that we will see over the next 10-15 years? The cheaper the batteries are the greater the incentive to build renewables.
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