For the first time, renewable energy generation beat out coal in the US • Hacker News Board

Re: For the first time, renewable energy generation beat out coal in the US

#121

Post by soitgoes511 » Sun, Apr 02, 2023, 2:39 PM UTC

locallost wrote: post #109

soitgoes511 wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is this why we were having energy shortages during the winter time and there was a rush to get the nuclear reactors back online in France ? I don't consider that having, "it figured out". If you want to discuss prices.. my place of employment is paying millions more euro this year than last. The increase in energy cost is also leading to increase in water costs.. I could go on, but you get the point.

That's some rewriting of history considering it's less than a year old. The scramble to get France's nuclear plants back online was because they completely failed in the first place, and at a critical time. Half of the fleet was offline most of the year, and half of those were completely unplanned and difficult to fix [1]. And it's still happening [2]. This failure was one of the biggest reasons for the electricity c…

I don't know how anything I said was re-writing history. The fact was over half the reactors were down due to corrosion and need of maintenance, yes. There was indeed a push to get them back online. I am happy the nytimes and reuters gave you such an informed perspective. The fact is we needed the nuclear reactors back online or we wouldn't have had power in sub-freezing tempetatures. So, sure.. thank God for the renewables.

Re: For the first time, renewable energy generation beat out coal in the US

#122

Post by kragen » Sun, Apr 02, 2023, 2:39 PM UTC

jillesvangurp wrote: post #25

adrianN wrote: post #7

Nice. The economics of renewables are really hard to beat. I hope we speed up the construction speed and at the same time electrify more sectors.

One thing that's often overlooked in statistics like this is roof top solar because it's just not that easy to account for. In places like Australia, where double digit percentages of homes have solar and where building codes are actually being changed to require solar panels, this is a non trivial amount that is putting a lot of pressure on energy suppliers to adapt. Effectively whole states are running on solar whe…

rooftop solar has the advantage that it doesn't depend on installing new transmission lines to get a grid connection

this is especially important in backwards countries like the usa with their so-called license raj preventing modernization

since most household energy is used for low-grade heating and cooling (refrigerator, air conditioner, oven, clothes dryer) i think thermal energy storage is likely to be a crucial enabling factor; mit's solar house used phase-change materials, but i suspect thermochemical energy storage is a better option

(why thermal energy storage instead of batteries? in the limit it's about three orders of magnitude higher capacity for a given price)

Re: For the first time, renewable energy generation beat out coal in the US

#123

Post by makomk » Sun, Apr 02, 2023, 2:40 PM UTC

revertmean wrote: post #43

lenkite wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"How did you learn about this and why do you care?" Because my german colleagues were ranting about this whenever there was a break/issue in "Teams meetings". (which happens often) Why do I care ? Because people are apparently not looking at reality when they make grandiose claims about renewables and electricity generation in Europe. Replace by renewables by all means - but at-least be honest about the data.

So Germany, a country that is well behind other European countries on renewables, had an over-dependence on Russian gas and was forced to reopen some coal plants when the price spiked. And you came to the conclusion that this was somehow a fault with renewables? How does that make sense to you?

Germany was at the forefront of the European push for renewables, though. Sure, they never produced as much electricity from renewable sources as countries with really great hydroelectric resources, but those countries' experience isn't that relevant to everyone else since the countries which could do that generally already did so before renewable energy even became fashionable in the first place. In terms of wind and solar they were way out in front of everyone else (they apparently had the highest installed capacity of solar in the world for a while, and they still have the third-highest wind turbine capacity behind only the much larger USA and China).

Re: For the first time, renewable energy generation beat out coal in the US

#124

Post by rainsford » Sun, Apr 02, 2023, 2:41 PM UTC

nroets wrote: post #116

photochemsyn wrote: post #106

This would have happened a bit earlier if the most efficient and long-lasting solar panels, monocrystalline silicon, had been developed by US manufacturers instead of by Chinese ones. All the tariffs applied by state and federal regulators on the import of these panels have been about slowing the rate of solar PV production in the USA on behalf of the fossil fuel and investor-owned utility sectors. https://www.pv-mag…

Why should the US try to lead solar panel technology ? China has many talented engineers and plenty of venture capital. I'd prefer them to invest it in solar panel manufacturing and power electronics rather than social media, ai or Telco technology.

Relying on a non-friendly country for something so crucial as energy is generally not a great position to be in, particularly if that country has rival world power ambitions. Europe and Russia have provided a great recent example of why you don't want to be reliant on potential enemies for your energy needs, and while the situation between the US and China is not the same and solar is different than fossil fuels, it's still a factor worth thinking about. The US would be a lot more secure being able to rely on a domestic solar industry as solar becomes more and more important.

Re: For the first time, renewable energy generation beat out coal in the US

#125

Post by kmax12 » Sun, Apr 02, 2023, 2:41 PM UTC

Long-term trends clearly demonstrate the energy grid’s transition to renewable energy sources.

However, renewables like solar and wind come with unique challenges due to their intermittent nature. They are more variable, harder to forecast, have location constraints, and can benefit from battery storage. These factors lead to a more dynamic grid than before.

For instance, several regions in the country provide five-minute updates on their energy generation mix, enabling near real-time observations of renewable energy effects throughout the day

For example, numerous regions across the country provide updates on their energy generation mix at five-minute intervals, allowing for close to real time observations of these effect of renewables throughout the day.

To help those involved in the energy transition, I created an open-source project called Grid Status (https://github.com/kmax12/gridstatus) that provides fuel mix, wholesale pricing, load, load forecasts, and more.

Additionally, I've developed real-time visualizations to make this data more accessible and easier to comprehend: https://www.gridstatus.io

I hope making this data more accessible and understandable will accelerate the transition away from fossil fuels.

Re: For the first time, renewable energy generation beat out coal in the US

#126

Post by simion314 » Sun, Apr 02, 2023, 2:42 PM UTC

thomaslangston wrote: post #52

simion314 wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I will install solar(not in US) but AFAIK batteries are not yet cost effective, Am I wrong and someone invented some cheap batteries? I expect that a company could be more efficient building giant batteries(chemical, gravity, etc) then a household buying something and maintaining it.

Batteries are not cheap, but they are cost effective based on local conditions. Time of use billing. The battery is generating ROI if it can arbitrage energy over the day. Net metering + solar. If net metering is not available, or sufficiently discounted, and your energy usage is not high enough during the day to use all your solar power, then batteries generate ROI. Grid stability. A battery effectively is insurance…

I think a solar system that also gives you independence from the grid is much more expensive, the program that we are using to get some subsidies do not include this extra features , so if power is out even if we have solar we still be out of power. Maybe in 10 years or realistically more a more advanced system would be worth it for my situation.

Re: For the first time, renewable energy generation beat out coal in the US

#127

Post by looping__lui » Sun, Apr 02, 2023, 2:46 PM UTC

adgjlsfhk1 wrote: post #97

looping__lui wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You cannot replace nuclear with renewables in Germany. You cannot shut down production if the sun doesnt shine or there is no wind. There is a non-trivial amount of electricity that needs to be available 24/7 and there needs to be a source of electricity that can be ramped up quickly when demands spike or renewable isn’t delivering.

you actually can. it's expensive, but it's an option. what's the cost compared to nuclear? I'm not sure.

Enlighten me how. 1) What do you do at night? 2) What do you do if there isn’t sufficient supply? 3) What if there is too much supply?

Re: For the first time, renewable energy generation beat out coal in the US

#128

Post by wolfendin » Sun, Apr 02, 2023, 2:47 PM UTC

ericmay wrote: post #44

melling wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Excellent. There are only a few thousand coal power plants globally https://www.statista.com/statistics/859266/number-of-coal-po... They generate something like 25% of greenhouse gases. When should be expect these to be replaced, and get the 25% drop in emissions? Replacing over a billion ICE cars seems with EV’s is going to be so much more work, for example. An immediate 25% drop in emissions might even buy us a few…

> Replacing over a billion ICE cars seems with EV’s is going to be so much more work, for example. Instead we could replace ICE cars with no cars and get much more bang for our buck. A few changes to how we build so that you can walk/bike within 15 minutes for many daily needs would reduce energy consumption, save families money, still allow for a car, and everyone would be much happier and healthier. Cars for all tr…

A ‘few’ changes that include ‘modifying or replacing a large amount of the constructed environment built in the US over the past 75 years’

It’s not a bad idea but let’s be realistic about the amount of work it would take

Re: For the first time, renewable energy generation beat out coal in the US

#129

Post by looping__lui » Sun, Apr 02, 2023, 2:47 PM UTC

pastacacioepepe wrote: post #89

looping__lui wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You cannot replace nuclear with renewables in Germany. You cannot shut down production if the sun doesnt shine or there is no wind. There is a non-trivial amount of electricity that needs to be available 24/7 and there needs to be a source of electricity that can be ramped up quickly when demands spike or renewable isn’t delivering.

I actually agree on this, but I was just replying to your statement that they decided to shut down nuclear to replace it with russian gas.

How would you technically replace nuclear with renewables? How do you manage excessive/insufficient supply?

Re: For the first time, renewable energy generation beat out coal in the US

#130

Post by looping__lui » Sun, Apr 02, 2023, 2:50 PM UTC

pastacacioepepe wrote: post #88

looping__lui wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh, Merkel certainly made it worse, but Schröder had a leading role… https://www.nytimes.com/2022/04/23/world/europe/schroder-ger... The opposition agreeing - you mean like the Green party who wanted to end nuclear like forever? Merkel had essentially absolute power in Germany and was leading some major changes that are hard to believe now… 1) shut down nuclear, 2) abolish compulsory military service, 3) open the bor…

> The opposition agreeing - you mean like the Green party who wanted to end nuclear like forever? No, I mean pretty much everyone: 513 yes to 79 no. > abolish compulsory military service hard to believe? I guess we agree to disagree.

You need a viable military in an advanced and wealthy society. If you disagree you are imho naive.

A military coup is one of the largest risks to any society. The “best” people to serve the military are the young people that stand to lose their country and have a million things that they get excited about - except going to war and fighting.

A society itself needs to protect itself.