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For the first time, renewable energy generation beat out coal in the US

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Re: For the first time, renewable energy generation beat out coal in the US

#171

Post by olddustytrail »

PM_me_your_math wrote: post #131
kmax12 wrote: post #125

Long-term trends clearly demonstrate the energy grid’s transition to renewable energy sources. However, renewables like solar and wind come with unique challenges due to their intermittent nature. They are more variable, harder to forecast, have location constraints, and can benefit from battery storage. These factors lead to a more dynamic grid than before. For instance, several regions in the country provide five-m…

It demonstrates, quite clearly, that energy cost is not a concern. We can just barrel through to the electric revolution without a single care to cost, availability, or reliability.

Not a concern for whom? It's a market. If you can produce electricity cheaper, go ahead and make a fortune.

Re: For the first time, renewable energy generation beat out coal in the US

#172

Post by Armisael16 »

lube wrote: post #165
rainsford wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Relying on a non-friendly country for something so crucial as energy is generally not a great position to be in, particularly if that country has rival world power ambitions. Europe and Russia have provided a great recent example of why you don't want to be reliant on potential enemies for your energy needs, and while the situation between the US and China is not the same and solar is different than fossil fuels, it'…

I think your vision is too US centric, US hegemony lead to disruptions to foreign nations like afghanistan, iraq, libya, etc. My pov from latinamerica is that my country could be next, and neither your culture nor your "business class" seems the future(we reflect your cultural hegemony with our version of shitty role models), si why not challenge US hegemony?

The tariffs and policy in questions are being set by the US - of course the discussion is US-centric, the question being discussed is ‘how should the US be approaching this?’

Re: For the first time, renewable energy generation beat out coal in the US

#173

Post by starkd »

>> And even when projects are approved, developers often discover they need to pay for new transmission lines to deliver power to residents and businesses. Those transmission lines often face further permitting delays.

Just discovering this? Yeah, this has not been well planned.

Re: For the first time, renewable energy generation beat out coal in the US

#174

Post by jimkleiber »

lube wrote: post #165
rainsford wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Relying on a non-friendly country for something so crucial as energy is generally not a great position to be in, particularly if that country has rival world power ambitions. Europe and Russia have provided a great recent example of why you don't want to be reliant on potential enemies for your energy needs, and while the situation between the US and China is not the same and solar is different than fossil fuels, it'…

I think your vision is too US centric, US hegemony lead to disruptions to foreign nations like afghanistan, iraq, libya, etc. My pov from latinamerica is that my country could be next, and neither your culture nor your "business class" seems the future(we reflect your cultural hegemony with our version of shitty role models), si why not challenge US hegemony?

I think their main point was that it doesn't make sense for the US to challenge US hegemony.

Re: For the first time, renewable energy generation beat out coal in the US

#175

Post by ImHereToVote »

sremani wrote: post #153
throwaway2037 wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I cringe each time that I hear a foreigner complain about China's Three Gorges Dam as an "environmental damage". The number of people who have died from floods on those rivers in the last 2000 years in mind-boggling. Yes, it generates a lot of electricity, but it is dual purpose to also control flooding. People can live without electricity, but it's difficult to live without water. This part is also interesting. Whil…

If flood control is the main concern, then the size of the dam does not have to be that of Three Gorges -- there are many things that went into three gorges and Vanity of CCP is a significant part of them.

CPC

Re: For the first time, renewable energy generation beat out coal in the US

#176

Post by marcosdumay »

anovikov wrote: post #26
adrianN wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"A crazy rate" that is unfortunately still much too slow to limit warming to 2° or below.

Forget global warming. Of course it will not be stopped. All fossil fuels will be burnt till full exhaustion of reserves, until the remainder is completely uneconomical to extract. But then the nations that were the last to start switching will find their economies too inefficient and expensive to run with the fossil fuels while everyone else is using much cheaper renewables, and will probably no longer have money fo…

Expanding renewable energy is exactly what will make the fossil fuels uneconomical to extract.

I won't happen by magic. Even with their ever increasing scarcity, as long as no alternative exists, they will be economical.

Re: For the first time, renewable energy generation beat out coal in the US

#177

Post by landemva »

Hanschri wrote: post #32
lenkite wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is not at all funny when apparently Germany had to reopen coal plants. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-10-21/germany-b... "Utility Steag GmbH will add four hard-coal plants with a capacity of 2.5 gigawatts to the market within the next few weeks, while Uniper SE will prolong operations at its 345-megawatt Scholven-C hard-coal-fired power plant, the companies said on Friday. " https://www.npr.org/2022/…

You left out the specific reason as to why they re-opened coal plants at the end of 2022: "Germany is deploying about 3 gigawatts of coal-fired generation to ensure there are enough electricity supplies to make it through the winter amid curtailed natural gas supplies from Russia." This was done out of necessity to ensure Germany did not run out of natural gas during the winter months as the gas imports from Russia h…

> to ensure Germany did not run out of natural gas

Russian gas to Germany is being replaced by gas from USA. And liquefying gas for boat shipping is not a cheap/green process.

https://apnews.com/article/germany-government-olaf-scholz-bu...

Re: For the first time, renewable energy generation beat out coal in the US

#178

Post by stainablesteel »

Al-Khwarizmi wrote: post #135
stainablesteel wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the reason the article only focuses on the US is because this mindset caused europe to become a massive coal user again - its a distraction piece renewables do not have this kind of obvious benefit, fossil fuels and fission are the best options until we can get fusion

The EU relied on coal for 15.8% of its electricity generation in 2022 vs. 40% renewable ( https://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/infographics/how-is-eu-el... .) while the US's coal share is 20% vs. 21% renewable (posted article).

this conveniently leaves out how much renewables fluctuate, as well as how much more inefficient it is to transport energy coming from renewables if these fluctuations happen over large distances.

either way it ends up getting offset by coal

Re: For the first time, renewable energy generation beat out coal in the US

#179

Post by klyrs »

thehappypm wrote: post #54
tmountain wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have solar on my roof, but I had to negotiate a net metering agreement with my utility company. I have friends saying the same utility company is now pushing back on new agreements. It seems that stupid issues will need to be resolved before solar hits a critical mass. That said, batteries help.

Net metering is a bad deal for utilities, though. The “delivery” part of the cost of electricity is more than half; it accounts for the maintenance of the grid etc. People dumping energy into the grid doesn’t lower that cost.

> The “delivery” part of the cost of electricity is more than half; it accounts for the maintenance of the grid etc. People dumping energy into the grid doesn’t lower that cost.

This sounds like a pretty good reason for utilities to be a public affair.

Re: For the first time, renewable energy generation beat out coal in the US

#180

Post by starkd »

revertmean wrote: post #67
tjbiddle wrote: post #57

My comment isn't directly related to the OP, but figured it'd be an interesting insight to share as it's very recent for me. Just finished a motorbike trip in Laos. Fun fact, their largest export is electricity. Would've never guessed that, right? 90% of the electricity they generate is exported to neighboring countries - mostly Thailand. 80% is renewable - Go Laos! But wait, it may be renewable... but turns out the…

It's also worth noting that dams aren't just built for electricity. They're also built to control flooding and to control water supply. I'm not saying that's the case in Laos, but it does happen. People can live without electricity, but it's difficult to live without water.

People can live without electricity, but only for very brief periods of time. If we had to go extended periods, I don't think it would be a stretch to say civilisational collapse would be immanent.
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