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For the first time, renewable energy generation beat out coal in the US

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Re: For the first time, renewable energy generation beat out coal in the US

#131

Post by PM_me_your_math »

kmax12 wrote: post #125

Long-term trends clearly demonstrate the energy grid’s transition to renewable energy sources. However, renewables like solar and wind come with unique challenges due to their intermittent nature. They are more variable, harder to forecast, have location constraints, and can benefit from battery storage. These factors lead to a more dynamic grid than before. For instance, several regions in the country provide five-m…

It demonstrates, quite clearly, that energy cost is not a concern. We can just barrel through to the electric revolution without a single care to cost, availability, or reliability.

Re: For the first time, renewable energy generation beat out coal in the US

#132

Post by Al-Khwarizmi »

revertmean wrote: post #53
lenkite wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why did you think its Germany alone ? It's Austria, France and the Netherlands as well. France and Austria both re-opened coal power plants. Even the Netherlands removed their cap on coal power. How does that make sense to you ?

What, France? The poster child for the nuclear fans had to re-open coal plants? Well, I hadn't heard that. That's interesting. It makes sense to me because they were all clearly dependent on Russian gas, which is what caused the price spike in electricity across Europe. It still doesn't make sense to me that you think it's something to do with renewables.

Comparing France to Germany in this respect is totally misleading. France reignited some coal power plants but the impact of this is negligible compared to the consequences of Germany's atrocious anti-nuclear stance.

France generated less than 1% of electricity with coal in 2022: https://www.statista.com/statistics/1263322/electrical-produ...

While in Germany it was over 30%: https://www.cleanenergywire.org/factsheets/germanys-energy-c...

There is a qualitative difference between an occassional need for some coal in particularly adverse situations, and relying on it for almost a third of your electricity needs.

Re: For the first time, renewable energy generation beat out coal in the US

#133

Post by Georgelemental »

adrianN wrote: post #7

Nice. The economics of renewables are really hard to beat. I hope we speed up the construction speed and at the same time electrify more sectors.

The economics of renewables are hard to beat until night falls and the wind stops blowing, at which point the cost jumps to $infinity/MWh

Re: For the first time, renewable energy generation beat out coal in the US

#134

Post by dpierce9 »

simplicio wrote: post #63
jillesvangurp wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One thing that's often overlooked in statistics like this is roof top solar because it's just not that easy to account for. In places like Australia, where double digit percentages of homes have solar and where building codes are actually being changed to require solar panels, this is a non trivial amount that is putting a lot of pressure on energy suppliers to adapt. Effectively whole states are running on solar whe…

I don't really understand the advantage of rooftop solar over just putting the same number of solar panels in a field somewhere. Id think it would be a lot cheaper to install the panels in one-place then having to distribute them to a bunch of differently shaped and oriented roof tops, and cheaper to have a few large inverters instead of a bunch of small ones.

A decent reason to have rooftop solar is that it reduces daytime distribution node demand which reduces wholesale commodity prices and takes pressure of the electricity delivery infrastructure (wires, transformers, etc). These are real costs we all pay in terms of capacity and distribution.

Re: For the first time, renewable energy generation beat out coal in the US

#135

Post by Al-Khwarizmi »

stainablesteel wrote: post #93
anovikov wrote: post #19

It's so funny to read discussions of "whether or not renewables are viable for replacement of all or most of electricity needs in the U.S.". Here in Europe, we have it figured many years ago and are replacing fossil-fueled generation at a crazy rate, will probably push it to a niche use (gas peakers to fill void when there's neither sun or wind and before enough electrolyzers are put online), in less than 10 years.

the reason the article only focuses on the US is because this mindset caused europe to become a massive coal user again - its a distraction piece renewables do not have this kind of obvious benefit, fossil fuels and fission are the best options until we can get fusion

The EU relied on coal for 15.8% of its electricity generation in 2022 vs. 40% renewable (https://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/infographics/how-is-eu-el....) while the US's coal share is 20% vs. 21% renewable (posted article).

Re: For the first time, renewable energy generation beat out coal in the US

#136

Post by rapsey »

nroets wrote: post #116
photochemsyn wrote: post #106

This would have happened a bit earlier if the most efficient and long-lasting solar panels, monocrystalline silicon, had been developed by US manufacturers instead of by Chinese ones. All the tariffs applied by state and federal regulators on the import of these panels have been about slowing the rate of solar PV production in the USA on behalf of the fossil fuel and investor-owned utility sectors. https://www.pv-mag…

Why should the US try to lead solar panel technology ? China has many talented engineers and plenty of venture capital. I'd prefer them to invest it in solar panel manufacturing and power electronics rather than social media, ai or Telco technology.

Chinese panels are cheap because they use slave labor to produce them.

Re: For the first time, renewable energy generation beat out coal in the US

#138

Post by matthewdgreen »

throwaway2037 wrote: post #104
tjbiddle wrote: post #57

My comment isn't directly related to the OP, but figured it'd be an interesting insight to share as it's very recent for me. Just finished a motorbike trip in Laos. Fun fact, their largest export is electricity. Would've never guessed that, right? 90% of the electricity they generate is exported to neighboring countries - mostly Thailand. 80% is renewable - Go Laos! But wait, it may be renewable... but turns out the…

I don't think it is helpful to celebrate countries that won the "geography birth lottery" and have huge rivers that are easy to dam. See: Laos, Paraguay, Norway, Austria, etc. Nothing is "amazing" that they are mostly green energy. Also, for other readers, Laos is a repressive "communist" dictatorship. It is no surprise that the gov't welcomed Belt & Road programme by China (with high interest loans!) to build a gian…

It's happening. Should happen faster, honestly. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xlinks_Morocco-UK_Power_Projec...

Re: For the first time, renewable energy generation beat out coal in the US

#139

Post by Georgelemental »

kuhewa wrote: post #8
jokoon wrote: post #2

It doesn't really matter if renewable generated more energy than coal for 1 day. What matters is annual generation. Renewables generates 5 times less than coal annually and still peak for a short period of time, so this is not a big progress. Wind turbines can have big energy peaks when it's very windy, but there is no cheap way to store that energy for a long period of time, WHICH IS WHY NUCLEAR IS THE GREENEST BASE…

Too bad the capital requirements upfront are so expensive for nuclear and literally no one wants to fund a project that will cost at least $8 billion, won't be online for a decade, and the power it be will produce is already more expensive than that of smaller renewable projects. Who knows maybe once renewable market penetration is nearly maxed out and if storage tech somehow hasn't caught up enough despite the great…

Nuclear is economically viable where and when regulations are sane. Nobody wants to fund a project that could get shut down on a whim by government after years of work and billions already invested.

Re: For the first time, renewable energy generation beat out coal in the US

#140

Post by natmaka »

kragen wrote: post #119
acidburnNSA wrote: post #110

This would be better news if coal wasn't also being replaced by new fossil gas plants like crazy. If you look at coal vs fossil gas in the US it's a lot more depressing. https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=48896 The fraction of energy that comes from low carbon sources is what matters.

i have the impression that gas produces something like 40 percent less co₂ per joule than coal? in some sense that's 'low carbon'

Indeed. Moreover some modern gas turbines can also 'burn' hydrogen, which will be 'green' (produced thanks to renewables' overproduction).
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