Sex and the citizenship process • Hacker News Board

Re: Sex and the citizenship process

#71

Post by paconbork » Thu, Mar 30, 2023, 1:14 AM UTC

csomar wrote: post #56

bruceb wrote: post #42

This article is very light on actual stats and heavy on random opinion. The writer resorts to laundering her opinion via the other people's quotes instead of hard facts The forms for marriage and fiance visas for the US are readily available for anyone to check: https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/us-visas/immigrat... https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/us-visas/immigrat... "Throughout the process, the…

> Yes unsurprisingly a country wants to do basic background checks on people it is making permanent residents and then citizens. This will not stop the worst from coming, at best; but might discourage the best from doing it. It’s stupid and inhuman.

Surely it may not stop some criminals mastermind, but most criminals are idiots with bad impulse control. I'd wager that many are caught by this process

Re: Sex and the citizenship process

#72

Post by Dylan16807 » Thu, Mar 30, 2023, 1:16 AM UTC

bruceb wrote: post #52

dangerlibrary wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Literally the next paragraph: "The fact is, the government does tend to view certain types of unions as more “legitimate” and certain types of spouses more worthy of citizenship. “Expectations of sexual intimacy are implicit in all of the laws around family reunification for [mixed-status] couples, and I think some couples try to make it explicit in order to demonstrate the legitimacy of their relationship,” said Jan…

"The fact is" ...with no actual facts presented. Just opinion.

It's not an opinion that many motivations for marriage are treated as illegitimate in circumstances like this, and it's not an opinion that marriage is expected to almost always involve sex.

Re: Sex and the citizenship process

#73

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Mar 30, 2023, 1:16 AM UTC

jMyles wrote: post #9

> The stakes are high — real families can be separated and lives ruined by a denial. It is understandable, then, that some people throw everything they have at the wall during the green card process. The system tells them that marriage, and the sex that consummates it, “is compulsory if you want access to the circuits of movement across borders,” Schaeffer said. What a stupid system. Why are we still doing this in 20…

[deleted]

Re: Sex and the citizenship process

#74

Post by AYBABTME » Thu, Mar 30, 2023, 1:39 AM UTC

tombert wrote: post #55

You know, I kind of get why people do this. My wife got her green card two years ago, through her marriage to me. We never considered sending them a sex tape, but we did have to attach lots of photos to prove that the marriage "real", and not just a front. I don't know how much the photos actually helped, since I don't think they actually looked at them, but instead the fact that we've had a shared bank account and s…

They do look at them.

Re: Sex and the citizenship process

#75

Post by 908B64B197 » Thu, Mar 30, 2023, 1:48 AM UTC

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #8

I totally did this wrong. They asked for pictures, so I just gave them vacation pictures of me and my wife in Bali, Thailand, or some other places. I didn't realize we were supposed to send nudes! But anyways, they didn't seem to even look at the packet we prepared and granted my wife's green card, which was a relief because she was already 3 months pregnant at the time.

> they didn't seem to even look at the packet we prepared

Some relationships are harder to fake than others.

Re: Sex and the citizenship process

#76

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Mar 30, 2023, 2:07 AM UTC

dangerlibrary wrote: post #3

robertwt7 wrote: post #2

> Now, submitting graphic materials like this is generally a bad idea. No shit, what are these people thinking? after all of the years of hardwork to get the citizenship, they would just send it for what? for fun??

Literally the next paragraph: "The fact is, the government does tend to view certain types of unions as more “legitimate” and certain types of spouses more worthy of citizenship. “Expectations of sexual intimacy are implicit in all of the laws around family reunification for [mixed-status] couples, and I think some couples try to make it explicit in order to demonstrate the legitimacy of their relationship,” said Jan…

[deleted]

Re: Sex and the citizenship process

#77

Post by int_19h » Thu, Mar 30, 2023, 2:07 AM UTC

bruceb wrote: post #52

dangerlibrary wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Literally the next paragraph: "The fact is, the government does tend to view certain types of unions as more “legitimate” and certain types of spouses more worthy of citizenship. “Expectations of sexual intimacy are implicit in all of the laws around family reunification for [mixed-status] couples, and I think some couples try to make it explicit in order to demonstrate the legitimacy of their relationship,” said Jan…

"The fact is" ...with no actual facts presented. Just opinion.

That USCIS requires people to submit evidence that their marriage is "genuine", and can reject an application based on such evidence being insufficient, is a fact:

"The burden is on the applicant to establish that he or she is in a valid marriage with his or her U.S. citizen spouse for the required period of time. A spouse of a U.S. citizen must submit with the naturalization application an official civil record to establish that the marriage is legal and valid. If an official civil record cannot be produced, secondary evidence may be accepted on a case-by-case basis. An officer has the right to request an original record if there is doubt as to the authenticity of the record."

(https://www.uscis.gov/policy-manual/volume-12-part-g-chapter...)

By definition this means that some marriages are treated differently from others.

Re: Sex and the citizenship process

#78

Post by seanmcdirmid » Thu, Mar 30, 2023, 2:14 AM UTC

908B64B197 wrote: post #75

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #8

I totally did this wrong. They asked for pictures, so I just gave them vacation pictures of me and my wife in Bali, Thailand, or some other places. I didn't realize we were supposed to send nudes! But anyways, they didn't seem to even look at the packet we prepared and granted my wife's green card, which was a relief because she was already 3 months pregnant at the time.

> they didn't seem to even look at the packet we prepared Some relationships are harder to fake than others.

I actually wasn't allowed in with my wife when she did her interview (she told me that they didn't look at the pictures), so I'm not really sure. We got a nice hotel room on the 100th+ floor of the Guangzhou IFC, so I was pretty caught up in that experience (and then I got to ride in a 380 on the way back to Beijing, double bonus). But definitely no nudes were needed to secure a green card.

Re: Sex and the citizenship process

#79

Post by makeitdouble » Thu, Mar 30, 2023, 2:18 AM UTC

jimbob45 wrote: post #59

makeitdouble wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Medical record is out of question in most countries. The UK one for instance: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/...

Okay, but America accepts more immigrants than any other country by orders of magnitude. That’s always forgotten whenever this discussion is brought up.

France isn't far in line in regards of immigrant proportions, and they also don't request health records for vetting purposes.

https://www.service-public.fr/particuliers/vosdroits/F34708/...

America isn't in some super exceptional situation where human rights need to be routinely trampled to preserve the nation.

Re: Sex and the citizenship process

#80

Post by dbg31415 » Thu, Mar 30, 2023, 2:23 AM UTC

incompatible wrote: post #60

makeitdouble wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Medical record is out of question in most countries. The UK one for instance: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/...

Australia routinely rejects people if it's thought they'll be a burden on the medical system.

Depression… mental health… Australia requires you to report if you ever saw a shrink. I think it was 10 years of medical records. What really sucks too, is that you tend to apply through your company, so you’re sending your company’s lawyer all these documents to submit on your behalf. And you know full well the company is probably getting a summary report. I found it so cruel that they make it harder to get a visa if you have a history of depression. Like plenty of people get depressed but don’t have a ton of visible symptoms… soldier on. But it’s fine if you just drink, but if you tried to get help they penalize you for speaking with a therapist.