Live data from Hacker News

Italy moves to ban lab-grown meat to protect food heritage

bbc.co.uk

351–360 of 474 posts

Re: Italy moves to ban lab-grown meat to protect food heritage

#351

Earlier quoted context omitted.

are you in eastern europe? for most western europe, europe means western europe unfortunately

Netherlands. Very dense cities surrounded by farm land. One of my friends is an engineer for food manufacturing equipment. Another for payment processing, and another as a bike mechanic, and another builds gaming rigs (think sim rigs). I don’t think I know anyone who works in tourism.

are there really hours worth of travel in the netherlands? or perhaps you meant travel by bike

Re: Italy moves to ban lab-grown meat to protect food heritage

#352
post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If it's deeply unpopular why is it so threatening Because of who is behind the unpopular thing, and who has power to make (thing) happen. Nuclear weapons are also deeply unpopular. > Won't the market quickly show that "bugs and lab-grown abominations" can't stand? The market won't have a say when bureaucrats pass a law mandating every burger or sausage should contain a % of lab-grown meat, with the % increasing eve…

> Because of who is behind the unpopular thing, and who has power to make (thing) happen. Who? The government that's currently banning it? > Nuclear weapons are also deeply unpopular. Consumers can't just not buy nuclear weapons and cause them to stop existing. This has nothing to do at all with a food product. > The market won't have a say when bureaucrats pass a law mandating every burger or sausage should contain…

Nearly all (if not literally all) of the dystopic sounding stuff being pitched as the way of the future is coming from the World Economic Forum [1]. 'Eat the bugs', "Lockdowns are quietly improving cities around the world", "You will own nothing, and be happy", are some of the more visible positions/slogans put out by the WEF. It's primarily made up of a global 'alliance' of the ultra-rich, politicians, large multinational corporations, and banks. An upstanding, ethical, and socially minded collection if I've ever seen one.

Reversing a law, especially one that would be exceptionally popular is unlikely to succeed. By contrast, so long as e.g. lab meat remains legal - there are lots of ways to work behind the scenes to achieve your ends. One of the easiest is labeling. By allowing lab meat to simply be labeled as meat, consumer choice can be largely eliminated. Pair this with artificial subsidies to the lab meat industry, and you completely undermine the market in a rather quiet fashion. It all has the same effect, without the same degree of outrage, as trying to overturn a popular law would.

[1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Economic_Forum

Re: Italy moves to ban lab-grown meat to protect food heritage

#353

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For what it's worth: this would still make sense today. It's insane how modern cities restrict the freedom and safety of people just so that a few people can drive SUVs more resembling a tank than a car in a city. Shit like Rezvani Vengeance should not exist, period. It's insane that the top leader in accidental death of children and adolescents involves automobiles [1]. [1] https://medlineplus.gov/ency/article/00191…

[flagged]

Quite a few places you would never even be able to even reach in a reasonable amount of time via bus/bike/walk. Would be like the part of the world accessible to you just radically shrank overnight.

Re: Italy moves to ban lab-grown meat to protect food heritage

#354

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not an abomination to eat natural food. Any carnivore/omnivore would eat a cow if it could. The fact that you perceive something natural as an abomination is a symptom of a society that's too successful and needs to invent problems where there are none.

The term "abomination" is not useful at all in this conversation. It's 100% up to individual interpretation. To be fair, so is "natural". Many of the traditional things we do to food is hard to frame as natural.

If you force them to define their argument, it doesn't have a foundation. I have yet to find a lab-grown meat that doesn't make me feel a little ill, but it is religiously charged to call it "an abomination." If the core argument is that this individual's interpretation of their specific Magic Book says it's bad, well, I just don't find that a useful discussion.

Re: Italy moves to ban lab-grown meat to protect food heritage

#355

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Man plans. God laughs. I'm calling Bs on the whole cow industry being bad for the planet because of their bodily functions. Any cows, any animals, any living creatures are never going to be bad for the planet. There is more resource consumption and harm in transferring the livestock as meat and farming livestock than there is in the methane gas. And lab grown meat is not going to change that.

It's not just their bodily functions (which are very significant despite your feelings), it's the enormous amount of land we clearcut and leave basically empty so they can graze. Also, it's not about the planet, it's about us. The planet obviously will be fine, but a lot of humans won't be.

>It's not just their bodily functions (which are very significant despite your feelings)

So were the bodily functions of the wild bison, and a boatload of other species that have disappeared or shrunk togheter with their methane output in rough equivalence to the growth in livestock and it's methane output (at least in the US tho I assume such calculations would be similar elsewhere.) Additionally anything they put out is a temporary problem part of a carbon cycle. The shit they fart out was once gras and will go back to it a few decades down the line. Wish to reduce that ouput to buy ourselves some time (to excuse pumping up more oil and the like for a little longer) and you basically end up with chicken and similar animals as the acceptable solution.

So yeah cow farts are not the factor to look at when looking at the relentless increase in CO2 ppm. Similarly most sequestration investments and drives are often little more than a scam, copium, equivalent to the push malicious push for single use plastics recycling by plastic manufacturers or at worst a push down the price of co2 for EHR. There is one source we keep making excuses for ad nauseum that is a new introduction into this all and it's the hydrocarbons sequestered for untold years that we pump up(and methane from tundra now defrosting oh and the reduction in boglands.)

No replacing those fields with forest won't be your cure. Sadly they barely sequester anything at all compared to what we're putting out even if we'd severely reduce it. They largely take it up, die, rot and release it again in the process. We can rely on it if we accept our solution to take thousands of years.

>it's the enormous amount of land we clearcut and leave basically empty so they can graze.

I agree it's an issue. However remove it and you'll have a different one. The fertilizer their manure makes up a significant portion of will probably be drawn even more from hydrocarbons (and rather finite resources like cheap phosphorus from morocco). The same hydrocarbons that produce an actual very long term issue. I have little trust in incentives leading us elsewhere. Perhaps you wish to avoid this by forcing techniques that will generally ... require more land for the same output or for land to be left "basically empty".

I'd see some good things coming from such harsh increase in food prices and availability at least. Some negative pressure on our relentless population growth, perhaps we'll learn to more often ditch some silly concepts such as unused lawns.

Re: Italy moves to ban lab-grown meat to protect food heritage

#356
post #302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Transit, and bicycle infra. But sadly you're not wrong regarding incompetence in the English speaking world, which is why I'm visiting Freiburg in a week to help decide whether to move there or Utrecht.

In contrast, I'll be visiting Amsterdam in a week to help understand how I might bring that culture of human-friendly infrastructure back to America. There are plenty of people in the English-speaking world working to fix the problems that our forebears created.

Good luck! That's great news. I wanted to do the same but I have a 3 and a 5 year old and I need to be somewhere good now, before their childhoods are over. But I still hope the US (and Canada - notjustbikes is keen to point out they're horrible too) can improve.

Re: Italy moves to ban lab-grown meat to protect food heritage

#357

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's no "protection" of anything, this is populist vote-grabbing. Lab-grown meat isn't even a reality and won't be for like a decade at least on supermarket shelves. Also, that's not even the worse of the things introduced by our government yesterday, administrations do not need to publish a public contract for works up to 150k euros. Now every single administration can spend and gift corrupted money left and righ…

> populist vote-grabbing sorry but how is this different from just democracy ? we have democracy here in USA that allows NIMBY homeowners opposing any new development. Is that also just 'populist vote-grabbbing'

I Googled NIMBY. It seems like a non-conversation enhancing passive aggressive term.

Re: Italy moves to ban lab-grown meat to protect food heritage

#358

This seems no different than the ridiculous laws proposed in some US states recently that would ban EV sales to protect the oil and gas industries. I’m sorry that people could one day lose jobs over this, but if lab-grown meat is proven to be a safe and cost/energy/carbon efficient alternative to raising and killing animals, then it would be insane to not pursue that.

No worries, text has a loophole:

> "Food or feed consisting of, isolated or produced from cell cultures or from tissues deriving from vertebrate animals is therefore completely prohibited for the use in the preparation of food, drink and feed."

Hence, you can make lab-grown meat from various insects (or crab or lobster) if you like with no concerns. Not sure if the public has an appetite for it, but these are apparently delicious when deep-fried:

https://www.mysabah.com/wordpress/sago-worm-butod/

I think lobster is the way to go. I guess octopus cells would also be an acceptable starting material (octopi are intelligent and shouldn't be hunted IMO).

Re: Italy moves to ban lab-grown meat to protect food heritage

#359
post #167
post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of the EU pillars is free movement of goods, meaning that you generally can't prevent someone from a different country from selling goods in your country. This means that the decree is either incompatible with EU law, or it is pointless as you'd just be killing your own domestic market while exposing yourself to other EU countries anyway GP's mistake was assuming that this isn't pure virtue signalling, the decree…

So if netherlands legalizes marijuana then Greece can't outlaw it because EU law? Seems pretty absurd! States have the right to set standards on the market regardless of Brussels.

It's already illegal in Greece so your argument is nonsensical

Re: Italy moves to ban lab-grown meat to protect food heritage

#360

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Because of who is behind the unpopular thing, and who has power to make (thing) happen. Who? The government that's currently banning it? > Nuclear weapons are also deeply unpopular. Consumers can't just not buy nuclear weapons and cause them to stop existing. This has nothing to do at all with a food product. > The market won't have a say when bureaucrats pass a law mandating every burger or sausage should contain…

Nearly all (if not literally all) of the dystopic sounding stuff being pitched as the way of the future is coming from the World Economic Forum [1]. 'Eat the bugs', "Lockdowns are quietly improving cities around the world", "You will own nothing, and be happy", are some of the more visible positions/slogans put out by the WEF. It's primarily made up of a global 'alliance' of the ultra-rich, politicians, large multina…

Oh good, we have our WEF boogie men, who I guess the Italian government is currently taunting. I expect they'll experience some comeuppance from the WEF? Or is this one of those "the enemy is both powerful and weak" situations where the WEF has incredible promised power, but still seems utterly ineffective? The same shadowy forces can easily change the definition of what constitutes lab grown meat, circumventing the law and introducing it into the system. You're not guaranteeing anything with this law.

> By allowing lab meat to simply be labeled as meat, consumer choice can be largely eliminated.

By making lab meat illegal, consume choice HAS been eliminated. This is literally the exact same problem that's being suggested as a slippery slope in plain view.

Post reply on HN