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Italy moves to ban lab-grown meat to protect food heritage

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Italy moves to ban lab-grown meat to protect food heritage

#281

Post by SketchySeaBeast »

dalmo3 wrote: post #273
SketchySeaBeast wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To me it seems to be when it's irrational reactionary overreach. If it's deeply unpopular why is it so threatening and why does it need to be banned before it even becomes a real thing? Won't the market quickly show that "bugs and lab-grown abominations" can't stand?

> If it's deeply unpopular why is it so threatening Because of who is behind the unpopular thing, and who has power to make (thing) happen. Nuclear weapons are also deeply unpopular. > Won't the market quickly show that "bugs and lab-grown abominations" can't stand? The market won't have a say when bureaucrats pass a law mandating every burger or sausage should contain a % of lab-grown meat, with the % increasing eve…

> Because of who is behind the unpopular thing, and who has power to make (thing) happen.

Who? The government that's currently banning it?

> Nuclear weapons are also deeply unpopular.

Consumers can't just not buy nuclear weapons and cause them to stop existing. This has nothing to do at all with a food product.

> The market won't have a say when bureaucrats pass a law mandating every burger or sausage should contain a % of lab-grown meat, with the % increasing every year.

Why would they do this? And wouldn't the people who had to do this be the same Italian government that's clearly anti-lab grown meat? If they switch to that stance won't this ban be easily rescinded anyways? If there's a lab meat boogie man with the power to make new laws what does this ban really do?

Re: Italy moves to ban lab-grown meat to protect food heritage

#282

Post by actionfromafar »

dangwhy wrote: post #193
krastanov wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Populism is part of democracy and some people even like it. But riling up your voter base to be excited about one bombastic law without (1) considering second order effects or (2) talking about what might be more pressing but unpopular problems, is not something I (and, seemingly, OP) like. And this does not even go into the usual malicious uses of populism.

> riling up your voter base But where did you get that this happened in italy . I didn't see that in the bbc article.

Are saying this is not supposed to rile up the user base, or not that the law is in Italy?

Re: Italy moves to ban lab-grown meat to protect food heritage

#283

Post by virtualritz »

This is comical. Even when ignoring any ethical reasons.

I'd would dare guess that climate change will make farming animals much less feasible in many parts of Italy in the very near future.

Lab-grown meat will become the only option for cash-strapped locals who want to cook (and thus preserve) local cusine meat dishes. Meat from livestock will have become too expensive for most people by then.

I.e. when that happens you have to decide what 'heritage' you want to preserve: parts of Italian cusine that require meat to prepare or farming animals for meat production.

The amount of water required to produce meat from livestock then will be so much that people will suffer water shortages because of it.

Re: Italy moves to ban lab-grown meat to protect food heritage

#284

Post by ben_w »

dalmo3 wrote: post #273
SketchySeaBeast wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To me it seems to be when it's irrational reactionary overreach. If it's deeply unpopular why is it so threatening and why does it need to be banned before it even becomes a real thing? Won't the market quickly show that "bugs and lab-grown abominations" can't stand?

> If it's deeply unpopular why is it so threatening Because of who is behind the unpopular thing, and who has power to make (thing) happen. Nuclear weapons are also deeply unpopular. > Won't the market quickly show that "bugs and lab-grown abominations" can't stand? The market won't have a say when bureaucrats pass a law mandating every burger or sausage should contain a % of lab-grown meat, with the % increasing eve…

> The market won't have a say when bureaucrats pass a law mandating every burger or sausage should contain a % of lab-grown meat, with the % increasing every year. If there's anything the recent years have showed is that slippery slope isn't a fallacy.

Sure, but they're currently demonstrating this in the exact opposite way: the market won't have a say when bureaucrats mandate everything has a maximum percentage of lab-grown meat, and that proposed percentage is "zero".

Re: Italy moves to ban lab-grown meat to protect food heritage

#285

Post by xdennis »

ben_w wrote: post #277
stametseater wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Democracy is termed "populist" when it enacts something counter to a deeply unpopular progressive agenda, such as replacing Italian food with bugs and lab-grown abominations.

"Lab grown abominations" are the only way I, as a vegetarian, get to enjoy hard cheese. GM bacteria rennet. Of course, part of why I'm vegetarian is that the idea of scraping off the stomach lining of a baby cow in order to turn milk into a convenient solid is, to me, also an abomination…

It's not an abomination to eat natural food. Any carnivore/omnivore would eat a cow if it could.

The fact that you perceive something natural as an abomination is a symptom of a society that's too successful and needs to invent problems where there are none.

Re: Italy moves to ban lab-grown meat to protect food heritage

#286

Post by illiarian »

pella wrote: post #279
illiarian wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder what their answer would be to Green Revolution in the 60s... Also, I can't get past random graphs with random numbers with zero explanation of the axes. There are valid concerns expressed, but they are buried underneath an avalanche of demagoguery.

just read a PDF .. https://arxiv.org/abs/1410.5787

I read their PDF (well, skimmed through). That's why I wrote what I wrote

Re: Italy moves to ban lab-grown meat to protect food heritage

#287

Post by barbazoo »

dalmo3 wrote: post #273
SketchySeaBeast wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To me it seems to be when it's irrational reactionary overreach. If it's deeply unpopular why is it so threatening and why does it need to be banned before it even becomes a real thing? Won't the market quickly show that "bugs and lab-grown abominations" can't stand?

> If it's deeply unpopular why is it so threatening Because of who is behind the unpopular thing, and who has power to make (thing) happen. Nuclear weapons are also deeply unpopular. > Won't the market quickly show that "bugs and lab-grown abominations" can't stand? The market won't have a say when bureaucrats pass a law mandating every burger or sausage should contain a % of lab-grown meat, with the % increasing eve…

> If there's anything the recent years have showed is that slippery slope isn't a fallacy.

What are you referring to?

Re: Italy moves to ban lab-grown meat to protect food heritage

#288

Post by AzzieElbab »

virtualritz wrote: post #283

This is comical. Even when ignoring any ethical reasons. I'd would dare guess that climate change will make farming animals much less feasible in many parts of Italy in the very near future. Lab-grown meat will become the only option for cash-strapped locals who want to cook (and thus preserve) local cusine meat dishes. Meat from livestock will have become too expensive for most people by then. I.e. when that happens…

How much do you know about Italian farming? It is very different from US. Consumption is also declining due to demographics

Re: Italy moves to ban lab-grown meat to protect food heritage

#289

Post by PurpleRamen »

illiarian wrote: post #116
pella wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but if lab-grown meat is proven to be a safe We need to fully understand its safety, nutritional content, and long-term health effects. Our understanding of the full biochemical spectrum of our diets is still limited. Therefore, it's important to ensure that lab-grown meat adequately replicates the complex array of nutrients and other beneficial compounds found in conventionally produced meat. Long-term effects: Si…

> We need to fully understand its safety, nutritional content, and long-term health effects. This is the same "reasoning" that ultimately led to ban on most GMO foods like actual long-term tasty tomatos. For some reason we demand significantly stricter controls over anything "lab-grown" than on anything "natural". Note: I'm not calling for lax controls. I'm callling for controls that are not more stringent than those…

> For some reason we demand significantly stricter controls over anything "lab-grown" than on anything "natural".

Because we overall know the natural products, how they are to handle and how they interact with each other. And yet we still have many problems from poor handling and still unknown interactions and also new "optimizations" coming from the business-side. And GMO&lab-grown is this, just worst, it's unknown territory, coming from a mindset which quite often has not the benefit of consumers and mankind on its focus. Basically, we have learned to not trust big business, and these are cases where they can shine with all their evil ignorance, so many trust them even less than normally.

Re: Italy moves to ban lab-grown meat to protect food heritage

#290

Post by AlgorithmicTime »

epolanski wrote: post #47
deergomoo wrote: post #13

This seems no different than the ridiculous laws proposed in some US states recently that would ban EV sales to protect the oil and gas industries. I’m sorry that people could one day lose jobs over this, but if lab-grown meat is proven to be a safe and cost/energy/carbon efficient alternative to raising and killing animals, then it would be insane to not pursue that.

There's no "protection" of anything, this is populist vote-grabbing. Lab-grown meat isn't even a reality and won't be for like a decade at least on supermarket shelves. Also, that's not even the worse of the things introduced by our government yesterday, administrations do not need to publish a public contract for works up to 150k euros. Now every single administration can spend and gift corrupted money left and righ…

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