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Italy moves to ban lab-grown meat to protect food heritage

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Italy moves to ban lab-grown meat to protect food heritage

#111

Post by capableweb »

Fragoel2 wrote: post #16

As an Italian, I can tell you this is just a move to grab some votes from their supporters. Lab meat is nowhere close to mass production so there is no real impact of this ban right now. When (and if) lab-grown meat becomes commonplace and, hence, cheaper than regular meat then the ban will be reverted as it would have negative implications on the country economy.

I'm not saying this ban is right or not, but if you're gonna ban something, doesn't it make sense to do it as early as possible, in order to minimize the negative effects from the ban itself?

If alcohol was to be banned today, we'll probably see protests and black markets appearing very quickly. But if alcohol was just invented yesterday and today a ban is implemented, the reaction would be much smaller.

In that view, it makes sense to ban as early as possible, when the ban as the least amount of effect and used as prevention, rather than to hammer down something that is already large.

But again, I think the whole ban is stupid, just trying to understand why it'd be implemented so early.

Re: Italy moves to ban lab-grown meat to protect food heritage

#112

Post by nforgerit »

kfk wrote: post #34

I was reading somewhere that Poland will overtake Italy in GDP pro capita in 10-20 years. True or not Poland is doing much better than Italy already. I think it’s interesting that a country that was 50 years under a dictatorship was able to take over on a country that has not only had freedom and democracy, but also help and financial support from US and EU. Italy is not hungry for growth and it keeps consuming whate…

Italy was the lab for modern populism in politics for 20-30 years. The nation is suffering from corrupt politicians like Berlusconi having tight bonds with the mafia.

Don't put this on "the people" who can barely do much if the whole system is undermined by their leadership for decades.

Re: Italy moves to ban lab-grown meat to protect food heritage

#113

Post by lettergram »

deergomoo wrote: post #13

This seems no different than the ridiculous laws proposed in some US states recently that would ban EV sales to protect the oil and gas industries. I’m sorry that people could one day lose jobs over this, but if lab-grown meat is proven to be a safe and cost/energy/carbon efficient alternative to raising and killing animals, then it would be insane to not pursue that.

> ridiculous laws proposed in some US states recently that would ban EV sales to protect the oil and gas industries.

Re: Italy moves to ban lab-grown meat to protect food heritage

#114

Post by marcyb5st »

beepbooptheory wrote: post #71
epolanski wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't be serious, it's obvious that EVs curb oil and gas consumption and profits.

How is that obvious? At least in the U.S., there is a pretty high chance that nonrenewables are charging your battery.

Power plants are more efficient than engines crammed within the trunk of a car. They have no limitations in space and weight and so you can do fancy things like heat recovery (you use the exhaust to pre-heat your fuel mix or reuse said heat for nearby industries), always have the combustion chamber at the best temperature for efficiency, ... . Plus, you can install much better filtration systems for combustion byproducts.

All in all, if everyone would transition to an EV you would see a noticeable drop in oil consumption thanks to the mentioned benefits.

EDIT: From a quick Google search I saw that:

- The lower end efficiency for oil and coal power plants is 37%. Gas power plants achieve 56% on the lower end according to [1].

- Car engines vary between 20% (gasoline) and 40% (diesel) efficiency according to [2]

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fossil_fuel_power_station#:~:t....

[2] https://rentar.com/efficient-engines-thermodynamics-combusti...

Re: Italy moves to ban lab-grown meat to protect food heritage

#115

Post by lm28469 »

jacquesm wrote: post #108
lm28469 wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every industry is doomed when developing countries can do the same for half the price... Which is exactly why Europe delocalised a lot of industries in the first place and is now mostly stuck with services, tourism and tech. And it's exactly what we should stop doing if we want to have anything of value left I know it's hard to believe for a lot of people on HN but not every country wants to become yet another soulle…

> now mostly stuck with services, tourism and tech > hard to believe for a lot of people on HN You generalize a lot. The EU does far more than services, tourism and tech and you can't really know what a lot of people on HN find hard to believe, especially if you then throw up a strawman about their professed beliefs.

But then again services represents 73% of European jobs according to Wikipedia

HN crowd is by large pro tech and "progress" with little to no concern about ethics, culture and other issues, reading this thread is a prime example of it actually

Re: Italy moves to ban lab-grown meat to protect food heritage

#116

Post by illiarian »

pella wrote: post #72
deergomoo wrote: post #13

This seems no different than the ridiculous laws proposed in some US states recently that would ban EV sales to protect the oil and gas industries. I’m sorry that people could one day lose jobs over this, but if lab-grown meat is proven to be a safe and cost/energy/carbon efficient alternative to raising and killing animals, then it would be insane to not pursue that.

> but if lab-grown meat is proven to be a safe We need to fully understand its safety, nutritional content, and long-term health effects. Our understanding of the full biochemical spectrum of our diets is still limited. Therefore, it's important to ensure that lab-grown meat adequately replicates the complex array of nutrients and other beneficial compounds found in conventionally produced meat. Long-term effects: Si…

> We need to fully understand its safety, nutritional content, and long-term health effects.

This is the same "reasoning" that ultimately led to ban on most GMO foods like actual long-term tasty tomatos.

For some reason we demand significantly stricter controls over anything "lab-grown" than on anything "natural".

Note: I'm not calling for lax controls. I'm callling for controls that are not more stringent than those on "natural" products.

Because honestly there's literally nothing natural about any food we consumr.

Re: Italy moves to ban lab-grown meat to protect food heritage

#117

Post by gpderetta »

nforgerit wrote: post #112
kfk wrote: post #34

I was reading somewhere that Poland will overtake Italy in GDP pro capita in 10-20 years. True or not Poland is doing much better than Italy already. I think it’s interesting that a country that was 50 years under a dictatorship was able to take over on a country that has not only had freedom and democracy, but also help and financial support from US and EU. Italy is not hungry for growth and it keeps consuming whate…

Italy was the lab for modern populism in politics for 20-30 years. The nation is suffering from corrupt politicians like Berlusconi having tight bonds with the mafia. Don't put this on "the people" who can barely do much if the whole system is undermined by their leadership for decades.

People did elect both Berlusconi and the current government.

Re: Italy moves to ban lab-grown meat to protect food heritage

#118

Post by wsc981 »

vman81 wrote: post #55
dahfizz wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Liking your country and not wanting to be poor are bad things nowadays

As with all poisons, it's a question of concentration. Greed and nationalism are bad, in the same way that eating a kg of table salt is bad. That doesn't mean that salt in and of itself is bad.

Nationalism isn’t necessarily bad, it also has many good features [0]. Maybe that’s your point, but the first sentence doesn’t make it clear.

———

[0]: https://archive.ph/O27qG

Re: Italy moves to ban lab-grown meat to protect food heritage

#119

Post by lm28469 »

unixgoddess wrote: post #103
withinboredom wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have nothing but farm for hours just 10 minutes from house in the EU. There's a lot more than "services, tourism, and tech."

are you in eastern europe? for most western europe, europe means western europe unfortunately

Eastern Europe is actually the opposite, lower tourism than the west and higher industry: less offshoring + western countries relocated some industries to the east to benefits from lower wages

https://preview.redd.it/fmpg5f0i9bc31.png?auto=webp&s=96ce53...

Re: Italy moves to ban lab-grown meat to protect food heritage

#120

Post by CalRobert »

jacquesm wrote: post #91
sokoloff wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We could have equally banned internal combustion engines to protect the steam engine and buggy whip industries or phase change refrigeration to protect the jobs of the ice delivery companies.

Not quite a ban on ICEs but nevertheless analog attempts were made: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_flag_traffic_laws These laws didn't last long, fortunately, and ostensibly they were to protect cattle, horses and carriage riders but clearly the idea was to slow the car down to the speed of a pedestrian effectively hobbling it to the point that driving a car didn't make sense.

Instead, we made our cities so unpleasant and poorly designed that walking doesn't make sense.
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