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Italy moves to ban lab-grown meat to protect food heritage

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Italy moves to ban lab-grown meat to protect food heritage

#191

Post by illiarian »

pella wrote: post #156
Retric wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s a wildly misleading take on nutrition. Basically all foods are cells so they contain all the normal cellular machinery like DNA. As long as lab grown meat is just normal animal cells nothing new is going on. Where you need to care about each individual molecule is if we where creating food one molecule at a time via a replicator or something so we could have wildly unusual ratios of these individual components…

> Basically all foods are cells Modern nutritional ingredients no longer contain only natural substances, and most additives are untested. "The European Commission is banning titanium dioxide (E171) as a food additive in the EU, starting with a six-month phasing out period as of February 7, 2022, until August 7, 2022, after which a full ban applies. Following the publication of Commission Regulation (EU) 2022/63 in t…

https://www.efsa.europa.eu/en/news/titanium-dioxide-e171-no-...

"Although the evidence for general toxic effects was not conclusive, on the basis of the new data and strengthened methods we could not rule out a concern for genotoxicity and consequently we could not establish a safe level for daily intake of the food additive."

So EU took the "better safe than sorry" approach which actually is sensible.

Re: Italy moves to ban lab-grown meat to protect food heritage

#192

Post by Retric »

pella wrote: post #156
Retric wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s a wildly misleading take on nutrition. Basically all foods are cells so they contain all the normal cellular machinery like DNA. As long as lab grown meat is just normal animal cells nothing new is going on. Where you need to care about each individual molecule is if we where creating food one molecule at a time via a replicator or something so we could have wildly unusual ratios of these individual components…

> Basically all foods are cells Modern nutritional ingredients no longer contain only natural substances, and most additives are untested. "The European Commission is banning titanium dioxide (E171) as a food additive in the EU, starting with a six-month phasing out period as of February 7, 2022, until August 7, 2022, after which a full ban applies. Following the publication of Commission Regulation (EU) 2022/63 in t…

I don’t see how that’s relevant to the question of nutrition.

Just because a little dirt ends up on an apple doesn’t make that dirt food, it’s a contaminant. Similarly people have been adding preservatives, poison, dyes, pesticides, etc to food for ages that doesn’t make that stuff food.

I would be very concerned about the artificial meats growth medium ending up in the end product.

Re: Italy moves to ban lab-grown meat to protect food heritage

#193

Post by dangwhy »

krastanov wrote: post #159
dangwhy wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> populist vote-grabbing sorry but how is this different from just democracy ? we have democracy here in USA that allows NIMBY homeowners opposing any new development. Is that also just 'populist vote-grabbbing'

Populism is part of democracy and some people even like it. But riling up your voter base to be excited about one bombastic law without (1) considering second order effects or (2) talking about what might be more pressing but unpopular problems, is not something I (and, seemingly, OP) like. And this does not even go into the usual malicious uses of populism.

> riling up your voter base

But where did you get that this happened in italy . I didn't see that in the bbc article.

Re: Italy moves to ban lab-grown meat to protect food heritage

#194

Post by briandear »

000ooo000 wrote: post #11

If food heritage is so important to the people of Italy, and they agree that lab-grown meat is vastly inferior for all of the claimed reasons, I imagine lab-grown meat as a product would just flop. Why ban it, unless it's all just political theatre?

If “climate” is so important to the people of California, and they agree that the ICE vehicle is vastly inferior for all the claimed reasons, I imagine ICE vehicles as a product would just flop. Why ban it, unless it’s all just political theater?

Re: Italy moves to ban lab-grown meat to protect food heritage

#195

Post by pfdietz »

the_af wrote: post #177
pfdietz wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's commonly asserted that Monsanto is dodgy as a company. I'm telling you this is a deliberately crafted and propagated deception, used as a weapon against GMOs. It's not something that can be separated.

How can it be a weapon against GMOs if the criticism of Monsanto is about their business practices?

It's as if you'd never heard of ad hominem arguments. They can be highly effective in the rough and tumble of politicized conflict. If Monsanto tried to defend itself on its merits, all its arguments could be dismissed by saying they're bad and you can't trust anything they say.

Re: Italy moves to ban lab-grown meat to protect food heritage

#196

Post by illiarian »

eimrine wrote: post #186
illiarian wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We need to fully understand its safety, nutritional content, and long-term health effects. This is the same "reasoning" that ultimately led to ban on most GMO foods like actual long-term tasty tomatos. For some reason we demand significantly stricter controls over anything "lab-grown" than on anything "natural". Note: I'm not calling for lax controls. I'm callling for controls that are not more stringent than those…

> This is the same "reasoning" that ultimately led to ban on most GMO foods like actual long-term tasty tomatos. Long-term tasty tomatos are a good thing but what about impossibility to breed my own tomato seeds if GMO will win 100% of the market?

> Long-term tasty tomatos are a good thing but what about impossibility to breed my own tomato seeds if GMO will win 100% of the market?

That is a great question and a very valid concern.

Because there are two things at odds with each other:

- We don't really want GMO plants (or even animals and fish) to interbreed with non-GMP plants/animals because wide-spread effects on the ecosystem could be disastrous. We've lived through a few of those with natural plants and animals as invasive species, and boy do we not want a pest-and-herbicide-resistant strain of tomatoes to take over the planet [1]

- And yet we do want to let people (both hobbyists and farmers) to raise their own plants and animals. At the very least to preserve local varieties.

I don't have a good solution for that. I think what may work if implemented correctly is for governments to maintain a stock of non-GMO seeds or even mandate that X% of the market must be given over to non-GMO products.

[1] We already have the giant hogweed to deal with https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heracleum_mantegazzianum. Imagine that but even more resistant to everything * shudder *

Re: Italy moves to ban lab-grown meat to protect food heritage

#197

Post by gpderetta »

stametseater wrote: post #163
9dev wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody described "food" as a doomed industry, but the practice of slaughtering animals for protein if better alternatives become available (which they definitely are not yet, not even long term).

[flagged]

to be clear, they are far right because they are fascists.

Re: Italy moves to ban lab-grown meat to protect food heritage

#198

Post by __void »

bl4ckm0r3 wrote: post #3

I am italian, not sure i agree with this. I would have rather allow it (even if I would have probably not bought lab grown meat) and be sure it's well communicated during the sale (either on the package or from the vendor in case it's a butcher shop). Especially because we can't ban Monsanto's GMOs and I don't see how this is worse...

> Especially because we can't ban Monsanto's GMOs and I don't see how this is worse...

why should GMOs and Monsanto, which has now been taken over and is one of the lesser producers, be banned? and why do we always have to make ourselves known with our mediocrity of repeated bar ideas, dear fellow Italian?

Re: Italy moves to ban lab-grown meat to protect food heritage

#199

Post by starkd »

9dev wrote: post #132
zpeti wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sorry but Italy produces some of my favourite foods, I find it ridiculous to call this a doomed industry. Italy has basically developed some of the best foods for humanity through hundreds of years of craftsmanship, from parmesan to mozarella to pasta, or crudo ham. If anything this should be protected just from a heritage perspective, like you protect an ancient castle or temple. This might mean that food is mor…

> We don't have to burn everything good and old to the ground to make way for tech bros of HN creating fake meat. No. But maybe we can become a species smart enough to avoid the suffering of other beings just for the joy of eating something that tastes nice.

>> just for the joy of eating something that tastes nice

That is an example of assuming the worst about someone else with whom you disagree. Taste is not a minor factor. It is a major part of life. Life rituals, commmunity are built around it. It gives life much of its diversity.

Re: Italy moves to ban lab-grown meat to protect food heritage

#200

Post by __void »

nemo44x wrote: post #67
9dev wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This whole insect flour debate is so braindead. We have billions of people to feed. Dried and shredded insects provide a great protein yield, can be produced incredibly efficient, and aren’t as destructive to the planet as lifestock. Many cultures have been consuming insects for ages. There is nothing unsafe, unnatural, or otherwise „bad“ about using insects for food - other than an embarrassing, unreflective revulsi…

My culture doesn’t consume insects and we don’t intend to start.

but you do eat spaghetti allo scoglio, huh?
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