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Companies to publish salary ranges in job adverts under new EU rules

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Re: Companies to publish salary ranges in job adverts under new EU rules

#241

Post by blakblakarak »

Reventlov wrote: post #135
blakblakarak wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In France you get 'top up' insurance called a mutuelle (the state pays the first 70% - 80% of most healthcare costs - chronic conditions are paied 100% by the state). A basic mutuelle is obligatory at all jobs, but many will provide a decent one (that includes glasses, advanced dental work, hearing aids etc) as a benefit.

Basic mutuelle is not mandatory e.g. in the public sector in France.

I didn't realise that was the case for the public sector - my wife's a nurse and hers is provided.

Re: Companies to publish salary ranges in job adverts under new EU rules

#242

Post by ktosobcy »

th13row wrote: post #232
ktosobcy wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm not from the UK, Never said you were. Only that you sound like a Brit... > I'm from South America. Greetings from Chile, the lovely state of estallido social de 2019 :P > It doesn't matter though, both the UK and the EU will crumble apart so fast that Lol, we've been hearing this as well for the past 20-30 years, mostly from the UK press and Leave campaign :D > I'm already expecting the hordes of expats trying…

Haha you're right, but as I always say, Latam, despite becoming red all over, is too corrupt/poor/unstable/inept to pull anything off. There are talks of a single currency ("Sur") which will never happen because Brasil doesn't want to hold Argentina's bags, because there's always been a grudge among many of these countries. Furthermore, there's a philosophy here: many rules, barely any enforcement (because of reasons…

So in a nutshell, you seem like anarchist and because of the inaptitude of LatAm countries you are quite content with status quo here? :D

Re: Companies to publish salary ranges in job adverts under new EU rules

#243

Post by roenxi »

YeGoblynQueenne wrote: post #231
roenxi wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If we're going to copy the Nordics, someone is going to have to start by translating their laws into English so we know what it is they are actually doing. I don't like arguing based on what they are hypothetically doing and I don't think many of the people pointing at them as an example know either. They're tiny, homogeneous and Norway has obscene oil wealth. It isn't obvious we can copy them piecemeal, even if it d…

Here's a few EU and Europe technology companies I could find information on, including their market capitalisation: ASML (Netherlands, Market cap: $262.07 Billion) Accenture (Ireland, Market cap: $171.21 Billion) Deutsche Telekom (Germany, Market cap: $118.43 Billion) Schneider Electric (France, Market cap: $91.00 Billion) Dassault Systèmes (France, Market cap: $54.24 Billion) Adyen (Netherlands, Market cap: $48.95 B…

That list of market caps is comparable to Google, and EU fragmentation as an excuse is grasping at straws - not only is that an example of the absurdist over-regulation in the EU (why are they all so excited about banning trade with each other?) but Google actually makes 30% of its revenue from the EU so it isn't like fragmentation is stopping Google from success.

It isn't like the EU is short of great coders, they just regulate their way to oblivion. With good ideas like the one in the article, I cheerfully add. They are making it transparent that anyone with a choice should go work for a US company.

Re: Companies to publish salary ranges in job adverts under new EU rules

#244

Post by YeGoblynQueenne »

roenxi wrote: post #243
YeGoblynQueenne wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's a few EU and Europe technology companies I could find information on, including their market capitalisation: ASML (Netherlands, Market cap: $262.07 Billion) Accenture (Ireland, Market cap: $171.21 Billion) Deutsche Telekom (Germany, Market cap: $118.43 Billion) Schneider Electric (France, Market cap: $91.00 Billion) Dassault Systèmes (France, Market cap: $54.24 Billion) Adyen (Netherlands, Market cap: $48.95 B…

That list of market caps is comparable to Google, and EU fragmentation as an excuse is grasping at straws - not only is that an example of the absurdist over-regulation in the EU (why are they all so excited about banning trade with each other?) but Google actually makes 30% of its revenue from the EU so it isn't like fragmentation is stopping Google from success. It isn't like the EU is short of great coders, they j…

Google is based in the US, so why would it matter whether the EU is one country or many for Google's market capitalisation?

Re: Companies to publish salary ranges in job adverts under new EU rules

#245

Post by roenxi »

YeGoblynQueenne wrote: post #244
roenxi wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That list of market caps is comparable to Google, and EU fragmentation as an excuse is grasping at straws - not only is that an example of the absurdist over-regulation in the EU (why are they all so excited about banning trade with each other?) but Google actually makes 30% of its revenue from the EU so it isn't like fragmentation is stopping Google from success. It isn't like the EU is short of great coders, they j…

Google is based in the US, so why would it matter whether the EU is one country or many for Google's market capitalisation?

If it easier for a US firm to move into European markets than it is for Europeans to? That is 100% on the Europeans. The difference between 70 million and 300 million in the home country doesn't make that much of a difference of how easy it is to break in to the German market - the problem is that French regulators would never allow a French Google to grow.

If France had a Google-like company, it'd end up like Nokia. Hiding at number 16 on a list somewhere, rather unremarkable, trying not to think about what could have been.

Re: Companies to publish salary ranges in job adverts under new EU rules

#246

Post by tfourb »

robertlagrant wrote: post #239
tfourb wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You said it is "mostly not luck". I said and believe I did at least prove to a first approximation that it is indeed mostly luck. Yes, hard work matters at the margin. Among the people I studied with, those with a good work ethic are mostly in a better place today than those who slacked during college. But we were all able to attend college in the first place because we were very lucky, not because of any particular…

I more meant that I don't split things up into "luck" and "hard work" - I think that's too broad. However, sticking to your framing, I would say a lot of that thing you call luck is the hard work of your parents, or their parents. Eventually you can trace that back to more significant events - being invaded by the right people can jump-start your civilisation (e.g. Britain being invaded by the Romans). Equally, being…

Yeah sure, but my point was that the current capitalist-maximalist ideology is that rich people have "earned" their wealth by "hard work" and thus should not be required to share with the rest of society. And that is just dump.

Personal wealth is to a first approximation just an expression of the hard work of other people (which is just another way of saying what you explained) and the luck of being in the right place at the right time (and more often than not having the right skin color, gender and social capital, also acquired by the work of other people). It should just be tolerated to the extend that it motivates people to take some risk to start businesses. But society does not have a moral duty to enable obscene personal wealth, quite on the contrary.

On a side note, your last comment is broadly correct but does skip over a lot of exploitation and repression that enabled the economic dominance of European nations in recent history. And again, this exploitation and dominance wasn't enabled by a particular genius or hard work on the Europeans' part. European societies were not more complex or sophisticated at any given time than i.e. many in Africa or East Asia.

Re: Companies to publish salary ranges in job adverts under new EU rules

#247

Post by th13row »

ktosobcy wrote: post #242
th13row wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Haha you're right, but as I always say, Latam, despite becoming red all over, is too corrupt/poor/unstable/inept to pull anything off. There are talks of a single currency ("Sur") which will never happen because Brasil doesn't want to hold Argentina's bags, because there's always been a grudge among many of these countries. Furthermore, there's a philosophy here: many rules, barely any enforcement (because of reasons…

So in a nutshell, you seem like anarchist and because of the inaptitude of LatAm countries you are quite content with status quo here? :D

That's a good way of putting it, yea. I know it sounds unhinged, but think of China. Would you rather live there?

Chaos & corruption >>> oppressive order

Re: Companies to publish salary ranges in job adverts under new EU rules

#248

Post by robertlagrant »

tfourb wrote: post #246
robertlagrant wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I more meant that I don't split things up into "luck" and "hard work" - I think that's too broad. However, sticking to your framing, I would say a lot of that thing you call luck is the hard work of your parents, or their parents. Eventually you can trace that back to more significant events - being invaded by the right people can jump-start your civilisation (e.g. Britain being invaded by the Romans). Equally, being…

Yeah sure, but my point was that the current capitalist-maximalist ideology is that rich people have "earned" their wealth by "hard work" and thus should not be required to share with the rest of society. And that is just dump. Personal wealth is to a first approximation just an expression of the hard work of other people (which is just another way of saying what you explained) and the luck of being in the right plac…

> Yeah sure, but my point was that the current capitalist-maximalist ideology is that rich people have "earned" their wealth by "hard work" and thus should not be required to share with the rest of society. And that is just dump

You'd have to cite this. The only people I see who are under the impression that labour is all it takes to make a business succeed are far left-wing, labour theory of value people.

> But society does not have a moral duty to enable obscene personal wealth, quite on the contrary.

You're half right. The criminal vagueness of "society" aside, no one has a moral duty to enable it. But there is no morality in disabling it, through theft or other means.

> European societies were not more complex or sophisticated at any given time than i.e. many in Africa or East Asia.

You seem to have misread. I wasn't saying or implying anything special about the complexity of European societies.

Re: Companies to publish salary ranges in job adverts under new EU rules

#249

Post by qwytw »

fxtentacle wrote: post #193
qwytw wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Salaries in Germany (and other European countries) are lower than in the US because German citizens receive a lot of benefits through government budgets that US citizens can only dream So all this justifies German employers paying their workers less? I'm not sure how should this make sense. All of those things you've mentioned are great and are financed through taxation paid by the workers... So just compare pretax…

In the same way that it's OK to pay people in SF more than in Detroit, it's OK to have a lower number in Germany if it comes hand in hand with massively cheaper cost of living. You need to compare the fully loaded cost, including health insurance and university access. If you add the fees that you had to pay in the US to send 3 kids to world-class universities, German salaries would probably come out as a higher valu…

True but it's not unreasonable to expect to have an extra 30-50k+ per year left in the US that you can save or do anything with (save for retirement, move to Germany/Europe after a few years etc.) which is not unlikely to be close to the entire disposable income of someone working in a similar position in Germany.

That gives you a lot of freedom longterm.

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