Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Companies to publish salary ranges in job adverts under new EU rules

businesspost.ie

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

131–140 of 249 posts

Re: Companies to publish salary ranges in job adverts under new EU rules

#131

Post by roenxi »

piva00 wrote: post #124
roenxi wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've seen what "solidarity" did to the manufacturing industry. I'd like my job to stay in my city. And anyone in tech has a lot more to gain from efforts to break the remaining guild-like systems in medicine and law making those services more affordable and available than they do from attempts to build a new one in tech.

And I've seen what solidarity (without the scary quotes) did to Sweden (and other Nordics), Germany, etc. as societies for the working class. A union is not a guild, it's not about creating barriers of entry like in law or medicine, unsure why you conflate those concepts. Perhaps it's from ignorance, or perhaps from the fears that the ruling class instilled into you.

If we're going to copy the Nordics, someone is going to have to start by translating their laws into English so we know what it is they are actually doing. I don't like arguing based on what they are hypothetically doing and I don't think many of the people pointing at them as an example know either. They're tiny, homogeneous and Norway has obscene oil wealth. It isn't obvious we can copy them piecemeal, even if it does make sense which I doubt it does.

And although it isn't exactly fair, note that Germany is a wasteland for tech. In the centre of a tech desert. The EU can't do tech. Copying their policies we can do, but it'll probably involve a lot of jobs heading to Asia. All Germany's solidarity isn't getting their salaries up to US wages; the money isn't there.

Re: Companies to publish salary ranges in job adverts under new EU rules

#132

Post by th13row »

oblio wrote: post #59

It's incredible how many people here are against transparency and a better labor market providing more information to the supplier side. Lord knows companies have probably 80% of the leverage in the job market. Tech people are doomed not by AIs, but by lack of solidarity, raw greed and lack of long term vision.

I just abhor the EU and everything it stands for. I can't wait to see how Europe comes crashing down.

Re: Companies to publish salary ranges in job adverts under new EU rules

#133

Post by ovi256 »

orwin wrote: post #117
toldyouso2022 wrote: post #64

The whole women perspective is ridicolous. I subscribe to the pov that there is no pay gap between sexes sprouting from hateful discrimination. But this will be great for Italy because a huge problem of our labor market is that salary is considered something dirty. This law may create a better culture. I hope so.

It's not malice, it's cultural. The pay gap exists because women tends to negociate less. And in male-dominated fields (fields that on average, pay more), they tend to be less outspoken, thus less visible, and as every dev here know, at least 50% of all promotions are based on visibility/performative work and not real skills. This law won't change anything for the wage gap (which is smaller and smaller are companies…

> because women tends to negociate less And unfortunately, not only that, there are some findings that when they do attempt to negotiate, they are perceived badly quicker than men.

Re: Companies to publish salary ranges in job adverts under new EU rules

#134

Post by acjacobson »

compmanager1234 wrote: post #70

Having worked at just-below-FAANG companies with a surely above average oversight on how compensation strategy works, let me summarize my experience: We, as a company already know how much our competitors pay for a given role as everyone in the industry is buying and selling statistical data on their compensation structure through 3rd party agencies. Therefore, we can and do intentionally target, which salary band ou…

> You should care about your total compensation anyway and neither cash bonus, nor equity is covered in the disclosure, although especially for senior positions, those are very substantial part of your compensation.

Even if you do get a bonus or equity as part of your TC, it doesn't necessarily mean you're going to get anything for it. I've had options several times that ended up worthless as well as bonuses that were never paid or partially paid due to nebulous company-wide performance metrics.

Unless you're working for a very well established tech company, ideally public, I'd give those parts of your TC a discount to what's written in your contract.

Re: Companies to publish salary ranges in job adverts under new EU rules

#135

Post by Reventlov »

blakblakarak wrote: post #89
adrianN wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Health insurance" is not a benefit in any EU country that I know of. Are there any EU countries where health insurance is as messed up as in the US?

In France you get 'top up' insurance called a mutuelle (the state pays the first 70% - 80% of most healthcare costs - chronic conditions are paied 100% by the state). A basic mutuelle is obligatory at all jobs, but many will provide a decent one (that includes glasses, advanced dental work, hearing aids etc) as a benefit.

Basic mutuelle is not mandatory e.g. in the public sector in France.

Re: Companies to publish salary ranges in job adverts under new EU rules

#136

Post by ExoticPearTree »

piva00 wrote: post #124
roenxi wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've seen what "solidarity" did to the manufacturing industry. I'd like my job to stay in my city. And anyone in tech has a lot more to gain from efforts to break the remaining guild-like systems in medicine and law making those services more affordable and available than they do from attempts to build a new one in tech.

And I've seen what solidarity (without the scary quotes) did to Sweden (and other Nordics), Germany, etc. as societies for the working class. A union is not a guild, it's not about creating barriers of entry like in law or medicine, unsure why you conflate those concepts. Perhaps it's from ignorance, or perhaps from the fears that the ruling class instilled into you.

Equality is a socialist fairytale and unions is what keeps innovation from happening. All they want is for all workers to earn the same wage because equality and other BS like this, stifle the company from firing people when they're not needed anymore and so on.

As an employee you need to be able to earn as much as possible and climb the ladder as high as possible with no impediments to this. And yes, be the next tech mogul that can build great things.

That's why technology leapfrogged all other domains, because it was free to innovate at a crazy pace.

Re: Companies to publish salary ranges in job adverts under new EU rules

#137

Post by msm_ »

th13row wrote: post #132
oblio wrote: post #59

It's incredible how many people here are against transparency and a better labor market providing more information to the supplier side. Lord knows companies have probably 80% of the leverage in the job market. Tech people are doomed not by AIs, but by lack of solidarity, raw greed and lack of long term vision.

I just abhor the EU and everything it stands for. I can't wait to see how Europe comes crashing down.

I love EU and everything it stands for (even if the execution is not always perfect). Why do you want to see Europe crashing down?

Re: Companies to publish salary ranges in job adverts under new EU rules

#138

Post by sokoloff »

paxys wrote: post #41
WheatMillington wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Supermarkets should not have to disclose their COST prices, because these are non public negotiations, not a public offer to buy/sell. That so many people wilfully choose not to understand this distinction frustrates useful conversation.

No the equivalent scenario would be a grocery store (or online store, hotel, airline etc.) not publicly advertising any prices at all. If you want something you have to take it to the cashier, and they will give you a personalized price based on whatever factors they choose. Should that be legal? Maybe, maybe not. But there are plenty of laws out there that mandate that companies make pricing more transparent, becaus…

Is the analog for hiring a software engineer closer to buying:

1. An economy round trip on Airline A, with max 2 checked bags, leaving from JFK at datetime D1 to SFO, returning at D2.

2. A round trip on a plane starting in New York in month M, all other details unknown.

Employees are different; how well matched they are for a given job is not knowable in advance of a first conversation, so for jobs were a range of value creation is possible, the range of possible agreement is wide and is certainly not a point.

I have two SWEs where one creates twice as much value as the other. If you hired both of them into your firm, which one created 2x as much value could easily switch.

Re: Companies to publish salary ranges in job adverts under new EU rules

#139

Post by acjacobson »

photochemsyn wrote: post #19

It would make more sense to publish lowest paid, highest paid, median and average salaries across the entire structure of the company. Plus data about other compensation in the form of bonuses, stock options, etc.

Or make all compensation public information for everyone. I believe in Norway you can see anyone's tax return, which isn't exactly the same because it aggregates all earnings from all sources into one, but it doesn't appear, as far as I can tell, to have had many ill effects.

Re: Companies to publish salary ranges in job adverts under new EU rules

#140

Post by lozenge »

roenxi wrote: post #131
piva00 wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And I've seen what solidarity (without the scary quotes) did to Sweden (and other Nordics), Germany, etc. as societies for the working class. A union is not a guild, it's not about creating barriers of entry like in law or medicine, unsure why you conflate those concepts. Perhaps it's from ignorance, or perhaps from the fears that the ruling class instilled into you.

If we're going to copy the Nordics, someone is going to have to start by translating their laws into English so we know what it is they are actually doing. I don't like arguing based on what they are hypothetically doing and I don't think many of the people pointing at them as an example know either. They're tiny, homogeneous and Norway has obscene oil wealth. It isn't obvious we can copy them piecemeal, even if it d…

The US also has oil wealth, but it goes to shareholders instead of to the public purse. Which is funny because none of them created the oil.
Post reply on HN