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Companies to publish salary ranges in job adverts under new EU rules

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Re: Companies to publish salary ranges in job adverts under new EU rules

#111

Post by HEmanZ »

atoav wrote: post #84
anhner wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't even understand how they would be against something that benefits them personally. I wonder if it's the mentality that "one day" they would become the IT moguls that own one of these companies, and wouldn't want this to disadvantage them?

Narcissism. [polemic rant incoming] They believe they are exceptional and deserve even higher pay than the ones listed, that the leopards-eating-peoples-faces-party won't eat their faces if they vote for it, that they are just temporarily embarrassed billionaires in a bit of a ruffle and golden times are just around the corner, they believe that they are better off if their surroundings are worse off, that the invisi…

I really think you strawman to the extreme with this. I’ve never met one of these people, but on the internet they get made up because they need to exist in order for posters to feel so justified and unarguably right in their political opinions.

Re: Companies to publish salary ranges in job adverts under new EU rules

#112

Post by perceptronas »

richardw wrote: post #106
patrickk wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's mentioned in the article that a salary range should be published. So a minimum and maximum amount should be listed in a job posting to avoid this kind of nonsense.

Nonsense can still occur: "salary range $10000 to $5000000".

Its not a problem, because putting a small number at a low end will hurt the ad itself

Re: Companies to publish salary ranges in job adverts under new EU rules

#113

Post by TurboHaskal »

piva00 wrote: post #83
oblio wrote: post #59

It's incredible how many people here are against transparency and a better labor market providing more information to the supplier side. Lord knows companies have probably 80% of the leverage in the job market. Tech people are doomed not by AIs, but by lack of solidarity, raw greed and lack of long term vision.

The lack of worker solidarity in tech is really astounding. I've been in this industry for almost 20 years and have been trying to instill some sense of it in every workplace I worked. Some decades ago it really seemed that tech workers felt like they were just tech moguls that hadn't made it yet, any kind of labour protection was looked at as "stifling innovation". Only lately I've seen people listen to me when I br…

> The lack of worker solidarity in tech is really astounding.

It's because those that are overpaid relative to others in the industry are very aware of the situation.

Re: Companies to publish salary ranges in job adverts under new EU rules

#114

Post by solarkraft »

namaria wrote: post #76
toldyouso2022 wrote: post #64

The whole women perspective is ridicolous. I subscribe to the pov that there is no pay gap between sexes sprouting from hateful discrimination. But this will be great for Italy because a huge problem of our labor market is that salary is considered something dirty. This law may create a better culture. I hope so.

> But this will be great for Italy because a huge problem of our labor market is that salary is considered something dirty Truly. Employees being termed "dependents" of the company is a big tell on Italy's work culture. I can also vouch for the toxicity of the Brazilian labor market. Every middling manager carries on like a petty feudal lord...

> Employees being termed "dependents" of the company is a big tell on Italy's work culture

In german there's a funny situation as well: The employer is called the "work provider", while the employee is the "work receiver". Thank you, company, for providing me with work.

Re: Companies to publish salary ranges in job adverts under new EU rules

#115

Post by igleria »

oblio wrote: post #59

It's incredible how many people here are against transparency and a better labor market providing more information to the supplier side. Lord knows companies have probably 80% of the leverage in the job market. Tech people are doomed not by AIs, but by lack of solidarity, raw greed and lack of long term vision.

I wonder about the correlation between being against this and working in the US.

Re: Companies to publish salary ranges in job adverts under new EU rules

#116

Post by sammalloy »

zwarag wrote: post #73
oblio wrote: post #59

It's incredible how many people here are against transparency and a better labor market providing more information to the supplier side. Lord knows companies have probably 80% of the leverage in the job market. Tech people are doomed not by AIs, but by lack of solidarity, raw greed and lack of long term vision.

Also, many people refuse to grant someone else the same salary, as it is seen as a matter of social status.

> it is seen as a matter of social status

Just rewatched the film "Margin Call", and salary as social status is one of the main themes that arises in almost every scene with the junior members of the firm.

Re: Companies to publish salary ranges in job adverts under new EU rules

#117

Post by orwin »

toldyouso2022 wrote: post #64

The whole women perspective is ridicolous. I subscribe to the pov that there is no pay gap between sexes sprouting from hateful discrimination. But this will be great for Italy because a huge problem of our labor market is that salary is considered something dirty. This law may create a better culture. I hope so.

It's not malice, it's cultural.

The pay gap exists because women tends to negociate less. And in male-dominated fields (fields that on average, pay more), they tend to be less outspoken, thus less visible, and as every dev here know, at least 50% of all promotions are based on visibility/performative work and not real skills.

This law won't change anything for the wage gap (which is smaller and smaller are companies tends to promote less internally and hire external management).

Still a fine idea, I'm waiting fir the execution.

Re: Companies to publish salary ranges in job adverts under new EU rules

#118

Post by roenxi »

piva00 wrote: post #83
oblio wrote: post #59

It's incredible how many people here are against transparency and a better labor market providing more information to the supplier side. Lord knows companies have probably 80% of the leverage in the job market. Tech people are doomed not by AIs, but by lack of solidarity, raw greed and lack of long term vision.

The lack of worker solidarity in tech is really astounding. I've been in this industry for almost 20 years and have been trying to instill some sense of it in every workplace I worked. Some decades ago it really seemed that tech workers felt like they were just tech moguls that hadn't made it yet, any kind of labour protection was looked at as "stifling innovation". Only lately I've seen people listen to me when I br…

I've seen what "solidarity" did to the manufacturing industry. I'd like my job to stay in my city. And anyone in tech has a lot more to gain from efforts to break the remaining guild-like systems in medicine and law making those services more affordable and available than they do from attempts to build a new one in tech.

Re: Companies to publish salary ranges in job adverts under new EU rules

#119

Post by ben_w »

danjac wrote: post #97
oblio wrote: post #59

It's incredible how many people here are against transparency and a better labor market providing more information to the supplier side. Lord knows companies have probably 80% of the leverage in the job market. Tech people are doomed not by AIs, but by lack of solidarity, raw greed and lack of long term vision.

There's a lot of "I didn't expect the leopard to eat my face" around here at the moment.

Very few of us are currently suffering from a panthera pardus to the face despite recent events. I'm also not even sure how many on this forum voted for the LEPF party either, given that while it's focused on Silicon Valley it's definitely got a global user base (I'm in Berlin!)

Re: Companies to publish salary ranges in job adverts under new EU rules

#120

Post by yourusername »

patrickk wrote: post #110
richardw wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nonsense can still occur: "salary range $10000 to $5000000".

As noted elsewhere in the discussion, the EU tends to come down heavily on companies who violate the spirit of the law like that. Not to say it won't happen, but high profile examples will be clamped down on like Apple with the USB-C trickery.

Still in the real world it is not uncommon for there to be a 50% spread between employees in the same role. I've worked for companies where the official policy is a 50% higher pay for top performers vs worst performers and i'm sure there are companies with a even bigger spread.
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