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I don’t want a new phone, but I’m probably buying one

kooslooijesteijn.net

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Re: I don’t want a new phone, but I’m probably buying one

#251

Post by not_your_vase »

kaba0 wrote: post #246
not_your_vase wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish it was that simple. I use a 4th gen iPod touch, every day, only to listen to music while commuting. Just this week I needed an interval timer, and thought that I could just install one on my iPod. Nope - AppStore showed about 12 results for "interval timer", but none of them were installable on iOS 6. I thought then I will look for an online interval timer, and use it through wifi. After clicking through the f…

That device is 13 years old. It could definitely do more than what it currently can, but I don’t think it is reasonable to expect such a long support period, especially that mobile hardware underwent a complete metamorphosis in the meanwhile. It is reasonable to expect an iphone 14 to be usable as a general purpose device until the next major breakthrough, because year-to-year upgrades are mostly incremental nowadays…

Support? It doesn't need any action to let a 13 years old timer run on it. But removing the applications from the AppStore, it does need action, and investment of money and time. Keeping the support would be easier for Apple... but they don't want.

Frankly, there hasn't been a revolutionary breakthrough in the field of interval timers' technical design in the past decade that would warrant such a ridiculous obsolescence. We are literally talking about "hello world" level applications, that can't run on the device - not because the hardware or software isn't capable.

Re: I don’t want a new phone, but I’m probably buying one

#252

Post by vanilla_nut »

ajmurmann wrote: post #245
Jaxan wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Apps increasingly don't bother testing for the 4" screen dimensions Yes that is actually an issue. Websites also seem to think people with small screens don't exist. I don't recognise the other problems. But you might be right that banking apps at some point will stop working.

A related problem: I started to notice an increasing number of websites or apps where there is some interactive element at the bottom that keeps getting hidden by navigation unless I actively keep dragging up. The Search bar here on HN is an example of this. It didn't happen till a year or so ago. Happens on my 14Pro and when on my wife's 14 Plus. Does anyone know what's up with that?

Personally I sort that under "miscellaneous Safari awfulness" since the Safari browser causes all sorts of seemingly random problems on all kinds of sites. Even more randomness when you add in Safari Extensions, which also randomly break on random sites at random (non-reproducible) times, in my experience.

Alternative browsers on iOS can't come soon enough.

Re: I don’t want a new phone, but I’m probably buying one

#253

Post by taylodl »

terhechte wrote: post #8

If they want to use an old phone, they can just stop updating their apps and not installing new apps. I still own a iPad 3 with the same, old, software stack from 2013. It still works, I can do things. I just don't expect todays developers to make a herculean effort so that I can run their apps on my old device. It is not just the overhead of supporting multiple different OS versions with different technologies, it i…

This mindset is what the author is addressing. This strategy may have been acceptable in the 80's, 90's and 00's when advances in computing power were coming in leaps in bounds, but the 10's and 20's have seen a much slower advance in computing power. I mean, good grief! I was running Garage Band on my original iPhone SE using an audio interface for my guitar and several Audio Unit effects chained together. The phone handled it just fine. There's no reason you shouldn't be able to run the overwhelming majority of today's apps on these "old" platforms.

Re: I don’t want a new phone, but I’m probably buying one

#254

Post by joshspankit »

Reason077 wrote: post #74

C’mon, he’s still using a phone from 2016 (which was the low-end model even in 2016), and by his own admission it’s still pretty usable for most things. I think that’s a pretty good run. All the Android users I know have been through at least 3 or 4 phones in that period. And so have some of the iPhone users who obsessively upgrade every 2 years even though they don’t need to! (Typing this on an iPhone X from 2017…)

You wouldn’t argue that a hammer “had a pretty good run” and needed to be replaced if the head detached.

Nor a car with a flat tire.

Nor a road when a pothole appears.

The point I’m making is that when the devices are made there are future issue that are both known and reasonable (battery will wear out, network-based security vulnerabilities will be uncovered, etc), but we all recognize that those can be solved (user-replaceable battery, the ability to selectively block network access, etc).

What’s particularly frustrating are the “unreasonable problems”. For example: running photo recognition in the background on a device that does not have the resources to do it without affecting the user. Or gatekeeping old (perfectly functional) applications. Or any of the other cases that are outlined in these threads. In those cases it’s companies intentionally choosing to restrict our ability to use “their” devices and typically because there’s more profit in pushing “their users” to update.

Re: I don’t want a new phone, but I’m probably buying one

#255

Post by GeekyBear »

vanilla_nut wrote: post #242
GeekyBear wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Apple does not give you the freedom to use old versions of software. Not only can you use old versions of software, you can download them again if you reset your device. Visit the purchased tab in the App Store and select the app you wish to download again, and you will receive the last compatible version for that particular device.

Those versions don't stick around forever, unfortunately. A couple months back I reset my iPhone and it wasn't possible to download the Pebble app any more. My watch still works fine, especially with Rebble cloud services, but the app was just unavailable on the app store. That was the nail in the coffin that got me to switch to Android.

Again, you have to look in the purchased tab of the App Store. This allows you to continue to download apps you downloaded in the past that are no longer available as a new purchase.

Re: I don’t want a new phone, but I’m probably buying one

#256

Post by pwinnski »

joshspankit wrote: post #248

Something I have not seen yet: Apple has a significant part in this. To keep an app on the app store, the dev has to pay the yearly fee, and keep up to date with Apple’s requirements (which they legally agree to do through agreeing to the updated TOS). To keep up to date with Apple’s requirements they must (sometimes) make a minor edit to their code and upload the new version. To upload the new version they must use…

This is all true, and the interesting thing to me is that I don't think it's intentional. That is, it seems to be the natural result of steady innovation without special effort being made to keep things stable for those who want to avoid innovation.

Should they make that extra effort? Sure, arguably they should. Apple's philosophy has always been to look forward, not back, though, and things like supporting 32-bit code on 64-bit architectures require a lot of effort for little perceived gain.

Then again, that effort means people can jump off of the circular treadmill, so maybe it's worth it.

Re: I don’t want a new phone, but I’m probably buying one

#257

Post by Reason077 »

joshspankit wrote: post #254
Reason077 wrote: post #74

C’mon, he’s still using a phone from 2016 (which was the low-end model even in 2016), and by his own admission it’s still pretty usable for most things. I think that’s a pretty good run. All the Android users I know have been through at least 3 or 4 phones in that period. And so have some of the iPhone users who obsessively upgrade every 2 years even though they don’t need to! (Typing this on an iPhone X from 2017…)

You wouldn’t argue that a hammer “had a pretty good run” and needed to be replaced if the head detached. Nor a car with a flat tire. Nor a road when a pothole appears. The point I’m making is that when the devices are made there are future issue that are both known and reasonable (battery will wear out, network-based security vulnerabilities will be uncovered, etc), but we all recognize that those can be solved (user…

> "You wouldn’t argue that a hammer “had a pretty good run” and needed to be replaced if the head detached."

If I'd used that hammer every day for many years and it had finally given out? If re-attaching the head wasn't going to give as good result as buying a new hammer? Sure I would.

> "For example: running photo recognition in the background on a device that does not have the resources to do it without affecting the user"

Yeah. Apple shouldn't have enabled that by default on older devices, but it can be turned off (Settings -> Siri & Search -> Photos).

Re: I don’t want a new phone, but I’m probably buying one

#258

Post by JoeAltmaier »

returningfory2 wrote: post #220
JoeAltmaier wrote: post #147

I buy a discount old non-iPhone from Target for $29. When I drop it and it's destroyed, I drop by Target and get another one. I have in my lifetime spent less than 10% of one iPhone on phones total. It runs maybe half as fast as a current phone. At 3% of the price.

The math doesn’t check out? My iPhone SE is $430 new, so as soon as you’ve bought two of these throwaway phones you’re over 10%? Making this comment to push back on the idea that somehow iPhones are insanely expensive; the SE is not.

Just bragging.

And yes they are insanely expensive.

And the SE is half the phone the most expensive iPhone is. About the same phone I have. So there's then no reason at all to buy it over a $29 phone. At least not from my point of view

Re: I don’t want a new phone, but I’m probably buying one

#259

Post by anonymousiam »

D13Fd wrote: post #187
vanilla_nut wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, you cannot. Apple does not give you the freedom to use old versions of software. You can't downgrade your iOS version. You can only upgrade apps, and iOS only lets you download the latest available version of an app for your version of iOS. Need to do a device reset? If you have managed to keep any apps on old versions, you'll get upgraded now. And you can't even save APKs and sideload because of Apple's develope…

You clearly haven’t tried it. My kids still use an 11 year old gen four iPad every day. It’s absolutely incredible for the $500 or so that we paid for it. We’ve gotten 11 years of entertainment out of it. The old apps still install just fine and we’ve never had to make any effort to maintain it, or fiddle with operating systems or software or anything. It’s hard to imagine a better value from a device like this, espe…

I've tried it with the two iPad2 devices that I still have. Here are a few things that you cannot do:

1) Anything that requires MFA via Apple.

2) Full backup/restore will not restore old versions of the apps. New versions are either unavailable or don't work.

3) Any popular streaming service such as Netflix/Amazon Prime/AppleTV.

Re: I don’t want a new phone, but I’m probably buying one

#260

Post by nebula8804 »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #147

I buy a discount old non-iPhone from Target for $29. When I drop it and it's destroyed, I drop by Target and get another one. I have in my lifetime spent less than 10% of one iPhone on phones total. It runs maybe half as fast as a current phone. At 3% of the price.

I used to buy these phones. There is a value in not having to deal with some garbage build of Android in day to day usage. Just because you are fine with this compromise does not mean the majority of the Apple user base will be.
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