I don’t want a new phone, but I’m probably buying one • Hacker News Board

Re: I don’t want a new phone, but I’m probably buying one

#241

Post by joshspankit » Tue, Mar 28, 2023, 2:01 PM UTC

inanutshellus wrote: post #219

GeekyBear wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Apple does not give you the freedom to use old versions of software. Not only can you use old versions of software, you can download them again if you reset your device. Visit the purchased tab in the App Store and select the app you wish to download again, and you will receive the last compatible version for that particular device.

The distinction here is choosing which version you want, not "the latest / maximum version the developer allows to be used for my device". For example I just got an update to an app I've been using for a while. The update will sunset the app despite there being no online component to it. I'd kinda like to downgrade now, but the latest version compatible with my phone would be his sunsetted one.

There’s also apps like Cooking Fever (the original is a great game to play with kids)

The latest version tacks on so many ads and “free to play” IAPs that it’s an entirely different game (and tbh one that’s no longer usable). It’s good enough and holds enough nostalgia for me that I would pay $2-5/yr to keep it clean but that’s not an option any more.

Thankfully I have been keeping backups over the years (iMazing) and so I was able to spend some time going through old versions to find a good one, but that is only a solution if you’re planning ahead or if you have a time machine.

Re: I don’t want a new phone, but I’m probably buying one

#242

Post by vanilla_nut » Tue, Mar 28, 2023, 2:04 PM UTC

GeekyBear wrote: post #181

vanilla_nut wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, you cannot. Apple does not give you the freedom to use old versions of software. You can't downgrade your iOS version. You can only upgrade apps, and iOS only lets you download the latest available version of an app for your version of iOS. Need to do a device reset? If you have managed to keep any apps on old versions, you'll get upgraded now. And you can't even save APKs and sideload because of Apple's develope…

> Apple does not give you the freedom to use old versions of software. Not only can you use old versions of software, you can download them again if you reset your device. Visit the purchased tab in the App Store and select the app you wish to download again, and you will receive the last compatible version for that particular device.

Those versions don't stick around forever, unfortunately. A couple months back I reset my iPhone and it wasn't possible to download the Pebble app any more. My watch still works fine, especially with Rebble cloud services, but the app was just unavailable on the app store. That was the nail in the coffin that got me to switch to Android.

Re: I don’t want a new phone, but I’m probably buying one

#243

Post by wiredfool » Tue, Mar 28, 2023, 2:04 PM UTC

lotsofpulp wrote: post #236

wiredfool wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

$349, plus tax of 30.36, on April 7, 2015. Still have the invoice.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPad_Mini_2 >Introductory price >Wi-Fi: 16 GB: $399, 32 GB: $499, 64 GB: $599, 128 GB: $699 >Wi-Fi + Cellular: 16 GB: $529, 32 GB: $629, 64 GB: $729, 128 GB: $829 I have a Jan 7, 2015 receipt from Apple for a 16GB Wifi only iPad mini for $300, and that was for the first version of iPad mini. Perhaps you bought it with a special promotional price.

It was probably closing out -- It was towards its end of active life.

Re: I don’t want a new phone, but I’m probably buying one

#244

Post by vanilla_nut » Tue, Mar 28, 2023, 2:05 PM UTC

sidewndr46 wrote: post #210

vanilla_nut wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, you cannot. Apple does not give you the freedom to use old versions of software. You can't downgrade your iOS version. You can only upgrade apps, and iOS only lets you download the latest available version of an app for your version of iOS. Need to do a device reset? If you have managed to keep any apps on old versions, you'll get upgraded now. And you can't even save APKs and sideload because of Apple's develope…

5G isn't an actual advancement however. For most of where I live, in a major US city the effective bandwidth is either 0 kbps or 0.1 kbps. Why would anyone choose a technology that doesn't have any actual function? If I use LTE at least I have some usable bandwidth.

Agreed, but as carriers phase out 3G and replace it with 5G your older phone will develop dead zones where it can't use the only service available: 5G.

Not enough of a problem for me to start using 5G yet. But eventually it'll force my hand.

Re: I don’t want a new phone, but I’m probably buying one

#245

Post by ajmurmann » Tue, Mar 28, 2023, 2:10 PM UTC

Jaxan wrote: post #130

vanilla_nut wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I held onto my 2016 SE until last month, through 3 battery changes as well. It's no longer receiving updates to the latest iOS, and only gets limited security update backports. Sadly, it won't be long before certain crappy-but-necessary-apps like banking and 2FA auth insist on you installing an update that doesn't exist on iOS 15. Apps increasingly don't bother testing for the 4" screen dimensions, and if you report…

> Apps increasingly don't bother testing for the 4" screen dimensions Yes that is actually an issue. Websites also seem to think people with small screens don't exist. I don't recognise the other problems. But you might be right that banking apps at some point will stop working.

A related problem: I started to notice an increasing number of websites or apps where there is some interactive element at the bottom that keeps getting hidden by navigation unless I actively keep dragging up. The Search bar here on HN is an example of this. It didn't happen till a year or so ago. Happens on my 14Pro and when on my wife's 14 Plus. Does anyone know what's up with that?

Re: I don’t want a new phone, but I’m probably buying one

#246

Post by kaba0 » Tue, Mar 28, 2023, 2:14 PM UTC

not_your_vase wrote: post #66

terhechte wrote: post #8

If they want to use an old phone, they can just stop updating their apps and not installing new apps. I still own a iPad 3 with the same, old, software stack from 2013. It still works, I can do things. I just don't expect todays developers to make a herculean effort so that I can run their apps on my old device. It is not just the overhead of supporting multiple different OS versions with different technologies, it i…

I wish it was that simple. I use a 4th gen iPod touch, every day, only to listen to music while commuting. Just this week I needed an interval timer, and thought that I could just install one on my iPod. Nope - AppStore showed about 12 results for "interval timer", but none of them were installable on iOS 6. I thought then I will look for an online interval timer, and use it through wifi. After clicking through the f…

That device is 13 years old.

It could definitely do more than what it currently can, but I don’t think it is reasonable to expect such a long support period, especially that mobile hardware underwent a complete metamorphosis in the meanwhile.

It is reasonable to expect an iphone 14 to be usable as a general purpose device until the next major breakthrough, because year-to-year upgrades are mostly incremental nowadays, but say the first iphone is incomparable on the hardware front to a modern smartphone.

Re: I don’t want a new phone, but I’m probably buying one

#247

Post by martin_drapeau » Tue, Mar 28, 2023, 2:16 PM UTC

I used to think this way but over the years I came to realize that iPhone progress comes at a price and the benefits greatly outweigh the cost. Notably: - iPhones improve over time (Face ID was somewhat slow on 10 but is really fast on 12) - Replacing allows Apple to fund next generations If no one upgraded, progress would not be as fast.

My next wish is for Siri to be faster (no latency please) and smarter. With LLMs become mainstream, I can finally see a day this may happen. I'm more that happy to upgrade my phone every 2 or 3 generations to fund improvements of Apple silicon.

Re: I don’t want a new phone, but I’m probably buying one

#248

Post by joshspankit » Tue, Mar 28, 2023, 2:17 PM UTC

Something I have not seen yet:

Apple has a significant part in this.

To keep an app on the app store, the dev has to pay the yearly fee, and keep up to date with Apple’s requirements (which they legally agree to do through agreeing to the updated TOS).

To keep up to date with Apple’s requirements they must (sometimes) make a minor edit to their code and upload the new version.

To upload the new version they must use the latest version of XCode.

To use the latest version of XCode they must also be running the latest version of macOS (and sometimes must update their dev device(s) to the latest version of iOS).

If they use the latest version of XCode their code must compile on it.

To compile their code they must (most times) use Apple’s new internal APIs and remove references to old Apple APIs.

Apple treats devs like consumers. The ever-advancing wall of “progress” pushes devs forward just like it pushes users forward. No one has the choice to stay behind peacefully.

Re: I don’t want a new phone, but I’m probably buying one

#249

Post by kaba0 » Tue, Mar 28, 2023, 2:17 PM UTC

CamperBob2 wrote: post #239

scarface74 wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You mean if you enable “automatic iOS updates” you don’t expect automatic iOS updates? Or do you mean that when the user specifically enables “automatic iOS updates”, Apple shouldn’t automatically do iOS updates ? If we don’t “blame the victim” for explicitly making a choice , who is at fault?

There was no reason to think you'd be effectively cut off from half your apps if you enabled automatic upgrades. Or that many of the apps you could still use would be forcibly "upgraded" to subscription models, as iTeleport tried to pull.

How old was that device?

Re: I don’t want a new phone, but I’m probably buying one

#250

Post by vanilla_nut » Tue, Mar 28, 2023, 2:20 PM UTC

WrtCdEvrydy wrote: post #95

vanilla_nut wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, you cannot. Apple does not give you the freedom to use old versions of software. You can't downgrade your iOS version. You can only upgrade apps, and iOS only lets you download the latest available version of an app for your version of iOS. Need to do a device reset? If you have managed to keep any apps on old versions, you'll get upgraded now. And you can't even save APKs and sideload because of Apple's develope…

You can install any version using AppStore++ which is available when you jailbreak. The older the phone, the easier the jailbreak. You can always download the app version that works for your phone using the Purchased section... the only real phone I have yet to be able to do this for is the iPhone 4 which did not have 64-bit apps. My iPhone 5S and beyond all have access to every app that is available for 64-bit OS. I…

You have to run a version of iOS compatible with jailbreaking, and know how to jailbreak. And then you have to maintain your likely tethered jailbreak that doesn't persist through reboots. And accept that you'll never get any security updates, even for major vulnerabilities.

Sounds like a lot of hoop jumping and a lot of caveats. Even I, a pretty tech-savvy individual, wouldn't want to bother with that on my primary phone. Let alone ask a non-technical friend or family member to do so.