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Utah is first US state to limit teen social media access

bbc.com

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Re: Utah is first US state to limit teen social media access

#481

Post by BeFlatXIII »

Mezzie wrote: post #442
heavyset_go wrote: post #306

I feel like this is a response to the exponential popularity of sites like r/exmormon among younger generations. For example, look at these exceptions. It seems like organic, unapproved discussion between users is what the bill is trying to stifle: > (D) news, sports, entertainment, or other content that is preselected by the provider and not user generated, ... (Q) to permit comments on a digital news website, if th…

I'd like to add that this may have outsized unintended effects like COPPA did - COPPA being the law that established that accounts online required you to be 13. I was 12 when COPPA went into effect. What a lot of people don't know about COPPA is that there is a provision to allow for children under 13 to have accounts with proven parental permission. My parents would have allowed me - I'd been online for 8 years at t…

How likely is it that today's teens simply check the "I am over 18" box and set themselves a fake birthday that is Jan 1 from 20 years ago? I've been 25 for the past 25 years, after all.

Re: Utah is first US state to limit teen social media access

#482

Post by BeFlatXIII »

taylodl wrote: post #18
paxys wrote: post #16

Whether this is a reasonable law or not, my big problem with it is that it puts the burden of enforcement on tech platforms rather than the kids' parents. There is no way for any company to check for something like this without also affecting every other user of the site, whether they are in Utah or not and whether they are a teen or not. What do they do exactly, start collecting government IDs from us before every v…

Call their bluff - don’t make your service available in Utah.

Or be a company based outside the US. "Your laws, your problem: my government doesn't care"

Re: Utah is first US state to limit teen social media access

#483

Post by pjc50 »

dragonwriter wrote: post #280
Spivak wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There won’t be any. Look, it’s fun to imagine these shitty lawmakers getting bit by their own laws applied to the letter but that’s not how it will go. The law will only ever be enforced against social media platforms they see as threatening their ability to shelter their kids. I think it says a lot about any politician that pushes for laws that are meant to be selectively enforced.

> Look, it’s fun to imagine these shitty lawmakers getting bit by their own laws applied to the letter but that’s not how it will go. The law will only ever be enforced against social media platforms they see as threatening their ability to shelter their kids. It’ll be enforced against whoever individual citizens decide to enforce it against; its a purely private right of action.

Ah, that's the carveout against the 1st amendment.

Conservatives have discovered that the constitution only binds the state, so if they delegate enforcement to private lawsuits they can completely bypass protections.

Edit: see https://theintercept.com/2023/03/24/texas-bounty-hunter-drag... and https://www.cbsnews.com/news/texas-abortion-law-bounty-hunte...

Re: Utah is first US state to limit teen social media access

#484

Post by BeFlatXIII »

ars wrote: post #43
paxys wrote: post #16

Whether this is a reasonable law or not, my big problem with it is that it puts the burden of enforcement on tech platforms rather than the kids' parents. There is no way for any company to check for something like this without also affecting every other user of the site, whether they are in Utah or not and whether they are a teen or not. What do they do exactly, start collecting government IDs from us before every v…

> it puts the burden of enforcement on tech platforms rather than the kids' parents What else do you expect? When tech companies make phones secure enough for the NSA, every app has passwords, and most apps have disappearing messages, how exactly do you expect parents to monitor what their kids are doing? All the "parental monitoring" apps do is check how much time kids are using the phone. They give zero info on wha…

That's all fine for 12-year-olds but becomes absurd authoritarianism for high schoolers.

Re: Utah is first US state to limit teen social media access

#486

Post by stametseater »

chiefalchemist wrote: post #69

Sure, let's blame social media for the troubles of our youth. It's not the endless wars. It's not the endless poverty. It's not the endless divisiveness. It's not the endless media fearmongering of X or Y. It's TikTok. It's Instagram. Etc.

Endless wars...

The children of North America have by in large not experienced war themselves in well over a century, with cartel violence being the standout counterexample of sorts. More lost parents to wars, but the Vietnam War was now a few generations ago and the "wars on terror" effected only tens thousands of North American families in this way, counting all casualties not just fatalities. Tens of thousands sounds like a lot but this country has hundreds of millions of people, so you can hardly explain broad social trends with this.

So how else might wars be effecting children in North America? Well for one, children may become depressed after watching tons of graphic foreign war footage online... on social media.....

Re: Utah is first US state to limit teen social media access

#487

Post by pavel_lishin »

vxNsr wrote: post #464
pavel_lishin wrote: post #451

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Two off the top of my head: - Chilling effect on political discussions. Good luck campaigning to overturn these laws if you can't do so without fear of reprisal from government officials or your local community. - Limiting the ability for marginalized groups to seek support; LGBTQ youth, ex-mormons, etc., would be directly harmed by this.

Why would your local community attack you for campaigning for anonymity?

It doesn't necessarily have to be these laws, it could be anything, but to answer your question - they might paint me as somehow being "against the children", having bought in to the angle that these laws make children safer.

Re: Utah is first US state to limit teen social media access

#488

Post by vlunkr »

docandrew wrote: post #256
vlunkr wrote: post #161

Can anyone familiar with the law tell us if this will stand? What grounds does the government have to limit access like this? On an unrelated note, I’m a little surprised how positive people are on this. How many of us spent time online in forums or chat rooms as teens? That can be a very formative experience. Especially for kids who feel like they don’t fit in with the local crowd or feel unaccepted by their parents…

I think the toxicity and addictiveness of modern social media are a whole different ballgame from the forums and chat rooms of old. The forums we grew up with weren’t explicitly trying to maximize “engagement” by showing the most viral content and distorting perspectives of the world around us. The fact that most of the forums were anonymous meant that people could be honest if they wanted to, but also bred a healthy…

And yet this bill will probably impact them in the same way.

Re: Utah is first US state to limit teen social media access

#489

Post by loeg »

tstrimple wrote: post #264
loeg wrote: post #59

How do they tell if a user is under eighteen?

They don’t. They will require everyone to provide an ID when signing up.

Not just signup. The language of the bill says it applies to existing Utah account holders as well.

Re: Utah is first US state to limit teen social media access

#490

Post by stametseater »

MBCook wrote: post #79
1over137 wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good points. But 3 and 4 are partly caused by social media I think.

They did it plenty before social media. That just accelerated the spread of individual stories.

Mass media did it from the start, but was less effective because they were trying to create "one size fits all" narratives that could reach and influence very large portions of the population. Recommendation engines tuned to the individual changed the game dramatically. They can lead people down rabbit holes that the other people in their life don't even know to exist. At least when the town newspaper or local church starts shilling some truly wacky shit, everybody in town knows about it. But now youtube/etc personalized recommendation engines can send your brother or father down radicalization paths you never even heard of before and had no possible way of noticing before the damage was done.

If you think "Oh I'll just watch youtube to get an idea of what other people are watching", you're stuck in 20th century thinking. It doesn't work like that anymore, youtube/etc are fundamentally unlike old media. These systems have atomized society in a way that newspapers never could.

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