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Utah is first US state to limit teen social media access

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Re: Utah is first US state to limit teen social media access

#251

Post by raincole »

LouisSayers wrote: post #219
raincole wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sure many of us wouldn't have been a programmer if we hadn't had access to SO/Github around 17.

You have no idea. Before StackOverflow it was PAINFUL. Staring at "Reached end of file while parsing" errors and wondering wtf that even means... Then finding out after 5 hours that you missed a semicolon. Oh, and forget rounded borders, what a f@#%king nightmare.

Oh I have a lot of ideas. I started learning programming before Stackoverflow got traction. Plus I'm not a native speaker and by the time I didn't really speak English at all. So I practically needed to learn what "Reached end of file while parsing" means in plain English, then tried to find out that I had missed a semicolon :'(

Re: Utah is first US state to limit teen social media access

#252

Post by noduerme »

judge2020 wrote: post #172
falcolas wrote: post #62

Is it a bad time to mention that sites like stack overflow, discord, sub stack, medium, Reddit, hacker news, GitHub, YouTube, and so forth have the same traits - the same identifying markers - as what we consider traditional social media sites? How the bill defines social media: 10) (a) "Social media platform" means an online forum that a social media company 160 makes available for an account holder to: 161 (i) crea…

> There’s exceptions for email, Netflix, Amazon, news, traditional media kinds of sites. The fact that there are 20 categories of services exempted shows that this is a terrible bill that is based on punishing specific actors and not regulating data privacy or child wellbeing in a meaningful way. for reference, line 165 to 224 of that link are the exceptions: "Social media platform" does not include an online service…

I don't know how to judge a bill, but I read this, and it seems that the intent is to broadly ban everything first and then carve out exceptions for almost everything except for a single category: Direct messaging (^B) between MORE than two users for non-creative, non-commercial, non-educational purposes.

AKA forums and memes.

Is that a fair analysis?

[edit] : per privacy advocates - no, I don't think it's okay to start with a law that bans everything and carve out exceptions; obviously, that way lies totalitarianism. I'm just trying to get a handle on the immediate intent. There's a boolean at work here. I guess someone was like, "hey, why chip away at forums and meme sites when we can just ban everything in theory, let most of it slide, and work back toward totalitarianism from there with the law already in place?"

[edit2] HN appears to be totally banhammered under this since /the mods/ don't post the news.

Re: Utah is first US state to limit teen social media access

#253

Post by JumpCrisscross »

judge2020 wrote: post #172
falcolas wrote: post #62

Is it a bad time to mention that sites like stack overflow, discord, sub stack, medium, Reddit, hacker news, GitHub, YouTube, and so forth have the same traits - the same identifying markers - as what we consider traditional social media sites? How the bill defines social media: 10) (a) "Social media platform" means an online forum that a social media company 160 makes available for an account holder to: 161 (i) crea…

> There’s exceptions for email, Netflix, Amazon, news, traditional media kinds of sites. The fact that there are 20 categories of services exempted shows that this is a terrible bill that is based on punishing specific actors and not regulating data privacy or child wellbeing in a meaningful way. for reference, line 165 to 224 of that link are the exceptions: "Social media platform" does not include an online service…

> that there are 20 categories of services exempted shows that this is a terrible bill

This is how privacy died. Someone fought for everything. Compromised for everything but twenty. Nobody supported the fight.

Then, when the deal was announced, out came the pitchforks for perfection.

Re: Utah is first US state to limit teen social media access

#254

Post by judge2020 »

dragonwriter wrote: post #236
UnpossibleJim wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

LOL, according to this, my family's group text thread is illegal under this law, as DMs can only be between 2 people. EDIT: serious question; would Slack be professional networking or, how does that work under this bill? It's DMing for business, but it isn't really networking.

> as DMs can only be between 2 people. Nothing in the law restricts to DMs being between two people, it just distinguishes them from public content.

As I understand it,

> (I) shared between the sender and the recipient; 171 (II) only visible to the sender and the recipient; and 172 (III) are not posted publicly;

maybe sender and recipient can be considered a group chat with multiple recipients? Otherwise you wouldn't classify something like Kik or Discord as social media.

Re: Utah is first US state to limit teen social media access

#255

Post by JumpCrisscross »

blintz wrote: post #245

The idea that nobody is entitled to privacy until they turn 18 is crazy. I shudder for all the LGBT kids whose parents all now have a (state enforced!) right to snoop on them. (Honestly headline should be: “Utah bill gives parents full access to their children's online accounts, including posts and private messages”)

> that nobody is entitled to privacy until they turn 18 is crazy

But precedented, through the history of parenting.

Re: Utah is first US state to limit teen social media access

#256

Post by docandrew »

vlunkr wrote: post #161

Can anyone familiar with the law tell us if this will stand? What grounds does the government have to limit access like this? On an unrelated note, I’m a little surprised how positive people are on this. How many of us spent time online in forums or chat rooms as teens? That can be a very formative experience. Especially for kids who feel like they don’t fit in with the local crowd or feel unaccepted by their parents…

I think the toxicity and addictiveness of modern social media are a whole different ballgame from the forums and chat rooms of old. The forums we grew up with weren’t explicitly trying to maximize “engagement” by showing the most viral content and distorting perspectives of the world around us. The fact that most of the forums were anonymous meant that people could be honest if they wanted to, but also bred a healthy skepticism of what strangers were up to, I think.

Re: Utah is first US state to limit teen social media access

#257

Post by quotemstr »

judge2020 wrote: post #172
falcolas wrote: post #62

Is it a bad time to mention that sites like stack overflow, discord, sub stack, medium, Reddit, hacker news, GitHub, YouTube, and so forth have the same traits - the same identifying markers - as what we consider traditional social media sites? How the bill defines social media: 10) (a) "Social media platform" means an online forum that a social media company 160 makes available for an account holder to: 161 (i) crea…

> There’s exceptions for email, Netflix, Amazon, news, traditional media kinds of sites. The fact that there are 20 categories of services exempted shows that this is a terrible bill that is based on punishing specific actors and not regulating data privacy or child wellbeing in a meaningful way. for reference, line 165 to 224 of that link are the exceptions: "Social media platform" does not include an online service…

Doesn't G exempt Instagram? And isn't Instagram allegedly among the worst social network for teens?

Re: Utah is first US state to limit teen social media access

#258

Post by dragonwriter »

falcolas wrote: post #143
swader999 wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sure our parents would have all let us sign up for a programming site. This bill still allows for that.

Who will pay GitHub to not only install age validation but parental bypass (also with validation)? I don’t believe they even allow under-13 today due to COPA laws. Of course this focus on the age 13 is completely missing the point that the actual age gate is 17.

> I don’t believe they even allow under-13 today due to COPA laws.

COPPA. COPA was the second attempt (after CDA, which was the first), COPPA was the third and the one that stuck.

Re: Utah is first US state to limit teen social media access

#259

Post by mvnuweucxqokii »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #183
arpowers wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Social media, crypto, gambling and the cigarette industries should be legislated away. Yes.

> Social media, crypto, gambling and the cigarette industries should be legislated away. Yes. Ironically posted on a social media site (Hacker News has the characteristics of "Social Media Site" under this definition). Reddit would also be gone. It's funny to read all the comments from people who think "social media" just means "sites I don't like"

I'm always very unimpressed by this kind of argumentation. There's a clear difference in kind between Hackernews, Reddit, Instagram, and TikTok. Sure, they all feature user-submitted content, but to pretend that there is any meaningful similarity beyond that seems silly.

Re: Utah is first US state to limit teen social media access

#260

Post by [deleted] »

okhuman wrote: post #229
hatsunearu wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>(F) interactive gaming, virtual gaming, or an online service, that allows the creation and uploading of content for the purpose of interactive gaming, edutainment, or associated entertainment, So Roblox, arguably quite harmful to children, is specifically carved out. That's great.

Whats going on at Roblox? Curious, as a parent myself.

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