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OpenAI tech gives Microsoft's Bing a boost in search battle with Google

reuters.com

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Re: OpenAI tech gives Microsoft's Bing a boost in search battle with Google

#541

Post by pixl97 »

kweingar wrote: post #469
woeirua wrote: post #410

Earlier quoted context omitted.

GPT4s killer revenue stream isn't selling ads on keyword searches. It's selling access to a general compute engine that can take text and do useful things with it. The API is dead simple to use, and all you have to do is just change a line of text to "upgrade" to the newest models over time. (By the way, the upgrade from ChatGPT -> GPT4 is huge). Google should be deathly afraid of this. Not because Microsoft is going…

I’ve said this before on HN, but if LLM agents catch on, won’t it be self-defeating in the long term? They need to pull tons of info from the web to be useful and up-to-date. If we all stop visiting websites, then who’s going to keep publishing all of that info?

Well, I would assume a lot of the producers, for example people making products would still have sites the agents could pull from to have up to date information. You'd most likely lose a lot of the middlemen that take that data, add something, and then cover the page in ads.

There are also tons of ego websites that aren't going anywhere from what I can tell. Tiktok will still be around unless it gets banned, and something else will pop up behind it if it does.

Re: OpenAI tech gives Microsoft's Bing a boost in search battle with Google

#542

Post by trympet »

nneonneo wrote: post #492
jonplackett wrote: post #454

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whenever there’s a big shift like this it’s always tempting to look at the new thing as say how great it is - and ChatGPT is awesome. But it’s also worth looking at how shit the old thing has become. Google.com now literally delivers you an entire page of ads before any real results. It’s blatant profit-squeezing instead of trying to serve their users. This is their reward.

Or how Google now aggressively autocorrects search queries, to the point where I’m regularly spending 3-4 queries just trying to convince Google to accept the input as-is. I get that it’s likely an effort to assist mobile users who make lots of typos, but the fact that the same autocorrection is deployed on desktop computers rubs me the wrong way.

This has been a major pain point for me as well, especially related to developer documentation. Recently switched to Bing, and it seems to be handling my queries better.

Re: OpenAI tech gives Microsoft's Bing a boost in search battle with Google

#543

Post by carlosjobim »

whatshisface wrote: post #140
ThePhysicist wrote: post #89

This might be a trope here, but recently I noticed that the quality of search results has degraded quite a bit for me. When I e.g. search for Golang-related content (often I want just the official docs of a module like net/http) I get all these developer-focused, SEO-optimized blogs that are kind of helpful but often not, and I have to scroll all the way down to get the official docs. I really wonder if that has to d…

I guess the problem is that Google doesn't have a metric for "clicked, wasted ten minutes, and was annoyed."

They could have let Chrome users rank any page they're browsing to get quality feedback. The installed base is massive.

Re: OpenAI tech gives Microsoft's Bing a boost in search battle with Google

#544

Post by skinner_ »

sourcecodeplz wrote: post #517
ithkuil wrote: post #470

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is bard that bad? I don't know, I can't try it because I'm not from the fucking USA or UK. And they do this for every new launch. Sorry, not available in your country. FFS, there is a world out there. Every fucking other company in the world doesn't bother with this shit. I was able to use OpenAI no problem. I was able to try Bing, no problem. Bard? Nope, I have no idea if it's good or bad. I can't trust what I read…

Just use protonvpn, it is free. worked for me.

The point is, I'm annoyed with a company not providing a service for me, am I gonna go the extra mile to make them successful?

Re: OpenAI tech gives Microsoft's Bing a boost in search battle with Google

#545

Post by ImaCake »

fdgsdfogijq wrote: post #164
tifadg1 wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I now only google when I need to sometimes verify that what chatgpt is suggesting isn't BS and I'm immediately reminded that google is barely better between SEO content farms, SEO SO scrappers, legacy information from 10 years ago. And that's with ads blocked. Between chatgpt+ for general guidelines and copilot for specific implementation details, programming feels very fun and alive. And I'm very skeptical to subscr…

I still cant believe google thought they could ruin the internet like that and continue to dominate search

To be fair, it has worked well for them for at least half a decade. It’s only now they are paying the price.

Re: OpenAI tech gives Microsoft's Bing a boost in search battle with Google

#546

Post by ambicapter »

moffkalast wrote: post #369
ambicapter wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A great quote from an article I read on HN recently > Suppose I was an evil person and wanted to eliminate the curiosity of children. Give the kid a diet of Google, and pretty soon the child learns that every question he has is answered instantly. The coolest thing about being human is to learn, but you don’t learn things by looking it up; you learn by figuring it out.

As opposed to the thing we did before, which is when kids asked something they were told something that's wrong and told to "stop talking back" and "go to your room". I think this is still an improvement.

> As opposed to the thing we did before, which is when kids asked something they were told something that's wrong and told to "stop talking back" and "go to your room"

Not everyone had your childhood.

Re: OpenAI tech gives Microsoft's Bing a boost in search battle with Google

#547

Post by nikau »

blueblimp wrote: post #474
tifadg1 wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I now only google when I need to sometimes verify that what chatgpt is suggesting isn't BS and I'm immediately reminded that google is barely better between SEO content farms, SEO SO scrappers, legacy information from 10 years ago. And that's with ads blocked. Between chatgpt+ for general guidelines and copilot for specific implementation details, programming feels very fun and alive. And I'm very skeptical to subscr…

SEO garbage is such a problem these days that, if I were Google, more than using AI as a new frontend for search, I'd be trying to find a way to use it to defeat SEO.

OpenAI should sell a feed of AI generated responses for search engines to consume and flag AI generated content.

Re: OpenAI tech gives Microsoft's Bing a boost in search battle with Google

#548

Post by grog454 »

dmix wrote: post #536
hombre_fatal wrote: post #441

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even though Google returns results instantly, for most things I still have to evaluate and click links and skim them for the information I want. Sometimes I have to do multiple searches (like one for retinol and another for beta-carotene in the following example). Yesterday I heard about retinol (vitamin A) mentioned in a nutrition podcast. I know carrots are high in vitamin A, but I didn't think they had retinol, so…

Yeah for questions with absolute answers that can be summarized like that it's perfect. Basically what Wolfram Alpha offered with quant data. Although my partner is a lawyer and she sometimes asks it to summarize cases (without providing the full source material manually) and it sometimes invents entire details in the cases in a very persuasive way. So you always have to be careful and double check if it's important.

Code and case summaries couldn't be much different. With code you get compile time validation, run time validation, (hopefully) test validation, and you can generally look at a block of code and say "seems like this should work" or "this makes no sense". You get none of that with facts of a case.

Re: OpenAI tech gives Microsoft's Bing a boost in search battle with Google

#549

Post by user3939382 »

unshavedyak wrote: post #423
user3939382 wrote: post #418

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess one difference is that I have a lot (decades?) of experience in the types of errors humans tend to make. Humans have certain biases, certain blindspots, etc. In programming for sure, there are very strong patterns in the types of mistakes we make that tend to be a function of skill or experience. So you (I) look for those without even thinking about it. Violation of YAGNI, ACID, DRY, pre-mature optimization,…

Good points. I think it also helps that i purposefully avoid asking for things that i can't validate. The easier it is to validate the more likely i am to ask. I find ChatGPT especially great with giving starting points. It kinda feels like 10 (or something... time?) years ago when i discovered how good Google was at finding movies based on vague wishy-washy definitions. If i don't know what to call something ChatGPT…

On further reflection one of the major missing signals from ChatGPT is time. This is especially important for technology. When someone's explaining, giving an opinion, providing a solution -- I always consider that in the context of the date attached. ChatGPT gives us these answers that remove that.

I see completely the difference in your example, though, where you can easily and immediately validate the response. It definitely is way stronger at that than previous solutions.

Re: OpenAI tech gives Microsoft's Bing a boost in search battle with Google

#550

Post by crakenzak »

LordDragonfang wrote: post #525
crakenzak wrote: post #509

Earlier quoted context omitted.

not true. source: I work at Google, and have been using internal bard since they launched it for us internally.

Isn't the internal version of "copilot" (for Cider) pretty good, though?

yeah its pretty useful, especially since its trained on our internal Google3 codebase. I use it multiple times a day on Cider-V.

I have not used copilot from github yet so I dont really have a point of comparison tho.

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