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OpenAI tech gives Microsoft's Bing a boost in search battle with Google

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Re: OpenAI tech gives Microsoft's Bing a boost in search battle with Google

#511

The rumour I keep hearing is that it's like the Hunger Games inside Google at the moment. Total chaos and infighting at all levels, investors are freaking out over AI and Bard's middling performance compared to OpenAI and blood is in the water. Sundar may be forced to resign and Larry/Sergei deployed to rescue the company.

Whenever there’s a big shift like this it’s always tempting to look at the new thing as say how great it is - and ChatGPT is awesome. But it’s also worth looking at how shit the old thing has become. Google.com now literally delivers you an entire page of ads before any real results. It’s blatant profit-squeezing instead of trying to serve their users. This is their reward.

> It’s blatant profit-squeezing

It's not just font end users feeling this, but advertisers too. Google ads just keep getting more expensive, harder to control and in many cases less effective. You have to, as an advertiser, give Google so much data about your operations and revenue to get the algorithms to work, it's ridiculous. I'm immensely suspicious of how they use the data they have access to about advertisers businesses.

Google entire business model is now about squeezing as much out of their advertisers margin as possible. It's only a matter of time before advertisers push back significantly.

Re: OpenAI tech gives Microsoft's Bing a boost in search battle with Google

#512
post #318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you sell ads on an AGI product? Since they made their original mission ("to organize the world's information and make it universally accessible and useful") subservient to their ads business, they didn't have an incentive to build it. It's the old innovator's dilemma. AI makes their business model obsolete, so they couldn't imagine how to build it.

How? By product placement. Steer the answers towards certain solutions. Ad people will be bidding on keywords it prompts. It's yet to be seen how much different that will be from normal keywords in search.

I think it's trickier than that. People wouldn't trust the answers. At least with ads, you can see that it's an ad. And it seems like there would be liability issues to having your AI saying "Use X product because..." vs passively displaying an ad. And since LLMs are non-deterministic, you'd have the risk that it says something that the advertiser wouldn't want. Advertisers would probably be scared of that. I think OpenAI's plugins look like a better fit. Just tell the model what you want and it interacts with services directly. I assume OpenAI is getting a cut of that?

Re: OpenAI tech gives Microsoft's Bing a boost in search battle with Google

#513
post #318
post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Was surprised developing AGI wasn’t one of their moonshots based on their own AI expertise

How do you sell ads on an AGI product? Since they made their original mission ("to organize the world's information and make it universally accessible and useful") subservient to their ads business, they didn't have an incentive to build it. It's the old innovator's dilemma. AI makes their business model obsolete, so they couldn't imagine how to build it.

Make an AGI powerful enough that if you tell it to book you a holiday or buy you a bicycle it finds something better than you'd have got yourself, and at a better price too.

Re: OpenAI tech gives Microsoft's Bing a boost in search battle with Google

#514
post #484

I'm honestly surprised it's only 15.8%. I can only assume that speaks to how vastly many non-savvy (don't care or know about it) there are using it because it came with Edge which came with Windows which came with the computer.

The Edge requirement and Bing's waitlist are probably slowing things down. Also, people are probably still split between using Bing or ChatGPT.

True, personally I've only used ChatGPT (I made an account for DALL•E, can't be bothered to create a Bing account), I'm just aware of people excited to try it out, using it, that in many if not all cases are not ordinarily Bing search users.

I suppose another thing is that this isn't necessarily (yet) converting into regular search use, I doubt colleagues trying it out for example have changed their default search engine ~overnight, so there's some fun image gen done, some chat queries to test it out, but then they get back to work and the searches for docs or examples or libraries or whatever are just done with whatever they usually use without even thinking about it, I imagine.

Re: OpenAI tech gives Microsoft's Bing a boost in search battle with Google

#515

I feel like I’m missing out on something but other than to summarize text or fill pointless and lazy homework assignments I don’t have much of a use of gpt search. I think I have a trust issue with it and I rather get the raw result and process it myself than to believe that what this model “understood” is right. Anyone else feels this way?

A director at my company is feeding sparse conference call notes to chatgpt to get coherent written summaries

Re: OpenAI tech gives Microsoft's Bing a boost in search battle with Google

#516

While I agree with a bunch of other comments that are interested to see what happens in the long term, to me, all of this points to some profound organizational and cultural problems at Google. I base that statement on things I see as an external observer, from posts I've seen from current/ex-Googlers here on HN, and from some (albeit brief) conversations I've had with some of these folks. If a decade ago you told me…

Google is also, both historically and currently, much more cost-conscious. I predicted that Bard would not be as mind-blowing as the new Bing back in February with this piece of information by Sundar:

> We’re releasing it initially with our lightweight model version of LaMDA

https://blog.google/technology/ai/bard-google-ai-search-upda...

This is to me the most inexplicable decision. Presumably to save costs they don't want to release the full version. But not releasing the full version immediately makes Bard much less useful. It makes people think Google is technologically far behind OpenAI, even though it isn't.

This is not the time to save costs. It's the time to release the full model that, yes, stirred up people's imagination by making even Googlers think the AI has achieved sentience.

Release the real deal, Google.

Re: OpenAI tech gives Microsoft's Bing a boost in search battle with Google

#517

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But maybe they are preparing a bombshell or something The release of Bard rules that out in my opinion. No one would unveil a product that's clearly worse than their competitor, damaging their brand, their share price, and the morale of the entire staff, if they had a better version ready to launch soon. The only way this could be true is if Google has more than one AI division and there's no comms between them. Whic…

Is bard that bad? I don't know, I can't try it because I'm not from the fucking USA or UK. And they do this for every new launch. Sorry, not available in your country. FFS, there is a world out there. Every fucking other company in the world doesn't bother with this shit. I was able to use OpenAI no problem. I was able to try Bing, no problem. Bard? Nope, I have no idea if it's good or bad. I can't trust what I read…

Just use protonvpn, it is free. worked for me.

Re: OpenAI tech gives Microsoft's Bing a boost in search battle with Google

#518
post #357

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stadia is a perfect example of Google's risk aversion. Microsoft invested billions on the XBox from the start, and spent over a billion dollars just to buy Minecraft, but Stadia didn't make an effort to secure even a single AAA exclusive. The same goes for YouTube exclusives. Netflix and Amazon spent hundreds of millions on flops like Marco Polo and Rings of Power. Meanwhile, the only notable series that came out of…

The problem is that Google’s core business model is too profitable, that nothing else can ever compete for attention and resources. But you’re right, they need to take the burn for awhile until escape velocity. I think they did with YouTube in general until the ads money hit. They’re also more geeky and not that creative of a company, nor do they really get design, so some of their blind spots can hurt them from time…

> The problem is that Google’s core business model is too profitable, that nothing else can ever compete for attention and resources.

Interesting, that's essentially Dutch disease[1] for a corporation.

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_disease

Re: OpenAI tech gives Microsoft's Bing a boost in search battle with Google

#519
post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem AI search has is monetization, openAI can't run gpu server farms to serve 100M customers for free forever. This was a problem that plagued early google as well, sergey and larry were against using ads for monetization, but in the end that i what drove the business to profitability

I wonder if AI search could be sth consumers would happily pay a tiny bit for

They wouldn't pay for AI search, but might for AI that also searches.
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