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OpenAI tech gives Microsoft's Bing a boost in search battle with Google

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Re: OpenAI tech gives Microsoft's Bing a boost in search battle with Google

#411

I feel like I’m missing out on something but other than to summarize text or fill pointless and lazy homework assignments I don’t have much of a use of gpt search. I think I have a trust issue with it and I rather get the raw result and process it myself than to believe that what this model “understood” is right. Anyone else feels this way?

The most illuminating thing about ChatGPT for me is just how terrible most programmers on HN apparently are. I thought it was just a funny meme that all we do is copy/paste from Stack Overflow but apparently that is literally what a lot of people are doing all day.

Meh.

I was working on a personal project yesterday to answer some questions I had about how liquidity risk works for money market mutual funds, and to forecast/nowcast liquidity risk and NAV risk for a bunch of funds.

Mind you: I don't know the first thing about anything financial. I was just curious.

chatgpt gave me a bunch of sources of data that I wanted, translating my lay description of things I wanted to know into financial terms of art. I could then look up legal definitions and formulas for those terms to make sure they were what I thought they were. chatgpt also told me which SEC forms those things are disclosed on, what data brokers I could use for other data, etc.

between chatgpt and copilot I saved at least an hour on the job of pulling down historical data from EDGAR for a bunch of funds and getting the stats I wanted (I didn't know EDGAR existed until yesterday, and the xml/html/txt formats are kind of annoying... like, fine, but a bit of a pita so I'm glad I had help because ughhh is that kind of code boring and damn are LLMs good few-shot inductive parser generators!). Also wrote some nice chart.js code for me and helped with automatically collecting, searching, and extracting some key stats and terms from prospectuses. I didn't know about chart.js until yesterday.

All of this would've been possible without assistants, and required a lot of "executive function" on my part to bring together, but it seriously saved me at least a couple hours of implementation work and up to a day on research and learning terminology and regulatory stuff. Again, verification of those things is way easier when you know what words to look up definitions for. And chatgpt did make mistakes/hallucinate.

I don't find much use in my professional life, where the code I'm writing is apparently too domain-specific for copilot to be helpful and the mathematics is too complex for chatgpt to help with. Maybe in a few years. We'll see.

Re: OpenAI tech gives Microsoft's Bing a boost in search battle with Google

#412

The rumour I keep hearing is that it's like the Hunger Games inside Google at the moment. Total chaos and infighting at all levels, investors are freaking out over AI and Bard's middling performance compared to OpenAI and blood is in the water. Sundar may be forced to resign and Larry/Sergei deployed to rescue the company.

A small local business's profile account got marketing mail from Google encouraging the business to sign up to try Bard. I've never seen Google mass mail to business profiles outside of the time they tried to get everyone to join their astroturfed anti-regulation group to complain about antitrust law. It's so shockingly rare for them to use mass mail to advertise a new product, especially one that's in such an early…

I received this email and figured hey, having an account for 15 years is finally paying off. But they just stuck me on a waitlist.

I didn't even have a microsoft account when I tried to sign up for bing, and was accepted off the waitlist right away. So??? Good job google.

Re: OpenAI tech gives Microsoft's Bing a boost in search battle with Google

#413

The rumour I keep hearing is that it's like the Hunger Games inside Google at the moment. Total chaos and infighting at all levels, investors are freaking out over AI and Bard's middling performance compared to OpenAI and blood is in the water. Sundar may be forced to resign and Larry/Sergei deployed to rescue the company.

The thing that I don’t understand is that google had every advantage in this AI race. They have the largest amount of training data than anyone. Not just internet data. But also geospatial data, video, images and books. Among other collected data. Including a huge lead and deep pockets for research. Yet, somehow they got caught off guard.

Re: OpenAI tech gives Microsoft's Bing a boost in search battle with Google

#414

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I remember when Stadia was going to light the gaming world on fire the way Gmail did for email.. The product its self was good and they were maybe the only company in the world besides Microsoft with the resources to deliver it, but they bungled the launch and then let it rot for 3 years. In my opinion that product is the perfect distillation of Google's problems.

> I remember when Stadia was going to light the gaming world on fire Really? All I remember is huge amounts of skepticism that Google would really commit to it, and as we know in the end they didn't.

Maybe I'm moving only in "Google fan boy" circles, but so many of my friends said that Stadia will be a game changer, that I started to think I'm stupid to see what they see because "I'm just not a gamer".

Many of my friends and colleagues were so hyped about it that I kept reading about Stadia just to understand what I'm missing.

(well, it turns out I didn't miss anything)

Re: OpenAI tech gives Microsoft's Bing a boost in search battle with Google

#415
post #340

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They delivered the Transformer. They "delivered" deemind and alphafold. It's just mindboggling that they can't deliver an uber-superior AI experience right here, right now. But maybe they are preparing a bombshell or something

But maybe they are preparing a bombshell or something The release of Bard rules that out in my opinion. No one would unveil a product that's clearly worse than their competitor, damaging their brand, their share price, and the morale of the entire staff, if they had a better version ready to launch soon. The only way this could be true is if Google has more than one AI division and there's no comms between them. Whic…

> The only way this could be true is if Google has more than one AI division

Google Brain and Deepmind? Not sure about the "no comm" part, but their HQs are in different countries.

Re: OpenAI tech gives Microsoft's Bing a boost in search battle with Google

#417

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I don't particularly see the value of having the founders back - they haven't been hands on for a real long time.

Larry and Sergey are radioactive post-MeToo. I'm not sure how people manage to constantly forget the extent of their misbehavior and misconduct of Harvey Weinstein-level proportions. But it's there, and if they come out of their private island hidey-holes, they will almost certainly get reminded of it, very publicly. Also, they have absolutely no reason to. Both have more money than they could ever spend in several g…

Money is not the only motivating factor in this world.

Re: OpenAI tech gives Microsoft's Bing a boost in search battle with Google

#418

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For me it’s not even theoretical. I’ve already wasted my time trying to sus out subtle garbage mixed into its answers. It’s the same reason I stopped using copilot. I don’t need or want that.

Funny, so far i've been just asking it things i normally ask Google. Same paranoia of answers that StackOverflow/etc give me, but far quicker and more responsive. TBH i'm not sure under what scenarios people search into Google expecting perfect answers. Ie where we're disappointed by incorrect information. I filter through a dozen wrong answers on Google every day. Why is it different if it's from ChatGPT?

I guess one difference is that I have a lot (decades?) of experience in the types of errors humans tend to make. Humans have certain biases, certain blindspots, etc. In programming for sure, there are very strong patterns in the types of mistakes we make that tend to be a function of skill or experience. So you (I) look for those without even thinking about it. Violation of YAGNI, ACID, DRY, pre-mature optimization, etc.

Even before getting to an answer I can often judge how trustworthy or skilled the author/speaker is likely to be by all kinds of little signals or keywords in their speech.

ChatGPT (and Github co-pilot) disables that highly tuned error detection and correction experience. It makes unpredictable mistakes, which is peculiarly pernicious. I'm sure it varies by the temperament of the user. Personally I don't have the patience for that.

Re: OpenAI tech gives Microsoft's Bing a boost in search battle with Google

#419
post #398

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bing is exposing source links for their answers, one-click verification. Wolfram has a much wider scope of information than I think most people realize, but your example of local hunting laws is a good example of what they don't cover. I asked Wolfram, and it told me how many calories I'd burn while hunting. I asked Google, and the first link was to Hunting Regulations - Outdoor Annual - TPWD - Texas.gov, excellent r…

> I've had some misses with OpenAI, but this was an excellent answer. I've also had some misses with Google, but this turned out to be something they surfaced excellent link for, too. Think about the bias - maybe you were able to verify that the answer was excellent because you already knew the laws? Or you Googled and compared it? In both cases, ChatGPT did not perfom alone in providing validity. It kinda gave a sum…

> if someone who does not know the laws, asks about them. ChatGPT cannot offer any validity alone for the user

There is a lot of SEO-optimised nonsense pertaining to the law.

Re: OpenAI tech gives Microsoft's Bing a boost in search battle with Google

#420
post #384
post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sundar should be fired. Google has blown its lead in AI research by being too hesitant to release products, while search quality has continued to decline. Bard is poor compared to ChatGPT 3.5, let alone GPT-4.

I've had a google home since early on and was really impressed how well it worked. Dramatically better than apple or amazon at the time. You could ask it complex questions and it would go find results for you, not just "We found a website..." Could ask things like "what are the differences in dimension between a 2004 Subaru WRX and forester". "Last 5 movies with a given actor/director". It would be funny, snarky, fri…

Google search is way worse now. Maybe that is a factor resulting in reduced quality of answers as you experienced.

For example lately I've searched for "prominent name company + product + question" only for Google to return a heap of blog articles of low quality, with the prominent company not appearing in first few pages of search results.

Often the question is directly on an FAQ page of the product page.

Why Google can't rank this properly anymore is a bit odd.

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