Companies to publish salary ranges in job adverts under new EU rules • Hacker News Board

Re: Companies to publish salary ranges in job adverts under new EU rules

#141

Post by potatototoo99 » Thu, Mar 23, 2023, 10:12 AM UTC

adrianN wrote: post #85

elric wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I doubt it. It'll be apples and oranges. Can't even compare salaries between companies in many countries because a salary isn't expressed as a single amount. It's a combination of some gross periodic amount, a random collection of benefits which differs from employer to employer, and even "the same" benefits can have radically different values (e.g. health insurance from provider A instead of provider B). There's no…

"Health insurance" is not a benefit in any EU country that I know of. Are there any EU countries where health insurance is as messed up as in the US?

Even with socialized healthcare everyone prefers private if they can afford it.

Re: Companies to publish salary ranges in job adverts under new EU rules

#142

Post by msm_ » Thu, Mar 23, 2023, 10:15 AM UTC

yourusername wrote: post #120

patrickk wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As noted elsewhere in the discussion, the EU tends to come down heavily on companies who violate the spirit of the law like that. Not to say it won't happen, but high profile examples will be clamped down on like Apple with the USB-C trickery.

Still in the real world it is not uncommon for there to be a 50% spread between employees in the same role. I've worked for companies where the official policy is a 50% higher pay for top performers vs worst performers and i'm sure there are companies with a even bigger spread.

In case of small companies it's not unusual to have just a "software engineer" job posting, and consider everyone from mid to principal engineer (with salary dependent on their skill level). I wonder how job postings would work in this case.

Re: Companies to publish salary ranges in job adverts under new EU rules

#143

Post by elric » Thu, Mar 23, 2023, 10:15 AM UTC

adrianN wrote: post #85

elric wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I doubt it. It'll be apples and oranges. Can't even compare salaries between companies in many countries because a salary isn't expressed as a single amount. It's a combination of some gross periodic amount, a random collection of benefits which differs from employer to employer, and even "the same" benefits can have radically different values (e.g. health insurance from provider A instead of provider B). There's no…

"Health insurance" is not a benefit in any EU country that I know of. Are there any EU countries where health insurance is as messed up as in the US?

Literally every EU country has health insurance as a benefit. This is on top of the default healthcare provided by the country in question. Depending on the insurance, it can get you things such as private hospital rooms, dental plans, better eyecare, payment plans, or even extra income guarantees if you're unable to work.

Re: Companies to publish salary ranges in job adverts under new EU rules

#144

Post by piva00 » Thu, Mar 23, 2023, 10:16 AM UTC

ExoticPearTree wrote: post #136

piva00 wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And I've seen what solidarity (without the scary quotes) did to Sweden (and other Nordics), Germany, etc. as societies for the working class. A union is not a guild, it's not about creating barriers of entry like in law or medicine, unsure why you conflate those concepts. Perhaps it's from ignorance, or perhaps from the fears that the ruling class instilled into you.

Equality is a socialist fairytale and unions is what keeps innovation from happening. All they want is for all workers to earn the same wage because equality and other BS like this, stifle the company from firing people when they're not needed anymore and so on. As an employee you need to be able to earn as much as possible and climb the ladder as high as possible with no impediments to this. And yes, be the next tec…

"When education isn't liberating, the dream of the oppressed is to become the oppressor" fits really well with your comment.

If unions keep innovation from happening how can Sweden be considered one of the most innovative countries on Earth? Or how can Germany be a powerhouse of engineering and building the machines that build machines?

Your take is a regurgitation of the usual talking points that the elite class use to keep workers separated. Unions aren't forcing socialism, unions are there to build up labour power against employers, who have a much higher leverage in any working agreement you can think of.

Your comment is exactly what I hear for the past 20 years of my work life. Workers are, ultimately, the ones creating value, you are defending the class that has the means to take risks due to their accumulation of capital. The rare oddity of a self-made man is the carrot that those use to push you to regurgitate their points.

Technology leapfrogged everyone because it's an immense value, it's immensely useful, not because there weren't labour protections. That's such a sideways view of everything that's a bit laughable...

Re: Companies to publish salary ranges in job adverts under new EU rules

#145

Post by brnt » Thu, Mar 23, 2023, 10:16 AM UTC

oblio wrote: post #59

It's incredible how many people here are against transparency and a better labor market providing more information to the supplier side. Lord knows companies have probably 80% of the leverage in the job market. Tech people are doomed not by AIs, but by lack of solidarity, raw greed and lack of long term vision.

There is always a segment that thinks or even is better than the other lackeys, and that the king will reward this now and in the future.

Let's call it the temporarily embarrassed billionaire syndrome: one day I'll own the factory, as long as I parrot the king.

Re: Companies to publish salary ranges in job adverts under new EU rules

#146

Post by msm_ » Thu, Mar 23, 2023, 10:18 AM UTC

justinclift wrote: post #58

jonas21 wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How so? My understanding is that Netflix offers a wide range of compensation based on individual performance. If they didn't disclose this, they'd be violating the law.

If they're looking for someone to fill this "$900k" position, they're clearly not going to hire someone they value as "$90k". And vice versa.

It's not clear they're looking for someone specific. When I applied for Google, I was first accepted, got the job, and then had to find an internal team that wanted me. I even decided which country I want to work in after I got accepted.

Re: Companies to publish salary ranges in job adverts under new EU rules

#147

Post by ohgodplsno » Thu, Mar 23, 2023, 10:21 AM UTC

roenxi wrote: post #118

piva00 wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The lack of worker solidarity in tech is really astounding. I've been in this industry for almost 20 years and have been trying to instill some sense of it in every workplace I worked. Some decades ago it really seemed that tech workers felt like they were just tech moguls that hadn't made it yet, any kind of labour protection was looked at as "stifling innovation". Only lately I've seen people listen to me when I br…

I've seen what "solidarity" did to the manufacturing industry. I'd like my job to stay in my city. And anyone in tech has a lot more to gain from efforts to break the remaining guild-like systems in medicine and law making those services more affordable and available than they do from attempts to build a new one in tech.

I've seen what no solidarity and no unions did to the US job market and work conditions.

You are not a temporarily embarassed millionaire about to disrupt the medecine and law sectors. You're just yet another drone that corporate is happy to use, expandable and easy to throw away.

Re: Companies to publish salary ranges in job adverts under new EU rules

#148

Post by piva00 » Thu, Mar 23, 2023, 10:22 AM UTC

roenxi wrote: post #131

piva00 wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And I've seen what solidarity (without the scary quotes) did to Sweden (and other Nordics), Germany, etc. as societies for the working class. A union is not a guild, it's not about creating barriers of entry like in law or medicine, unsure why you conflate those concepts. Perhaps it's from ignorance, or perhaps from the fears that the ruling class instilled into you.

If we're going to copy the Nordics, someone is going to have to start by translating their laws into English so we know what it is they are actually doing. I don't like arguing based on what they are hypothetically doing and I don't think many of the people pointing at them as an example know either. They're tiny, homogeneous and Norway has obscene oil wealth. It isn't obvious we can copy them piecemeal, even if it d…

I live and work in Sweden, even though worker solidarity here is almost at an all-time low it's still quite ingrained in society, it's one of the engines of making this society more trustworthy, less unequal and all the benefits that stems from that.

> All Germany's solidarity isn't getting their salaries up to US wages; the money isn't there.

Because USA's wages are the massive oddball here, not the standard. And to be honest, shouldn't be replicated anywhere else, having such a vast part of your population living how the bottom 50% of the USA lives is not really a goal for most developed countries, it doesn't create a healthy society (as you can see yourself by living in the USA).

Comparing purely on a wage basis is a reduction of what societies actually are. Great, you earn a lot more in the USA but now has to deal with all the stresses of living in the USA. Is that really what the average person in an advanced economy should be under? If you believe so, the USA is for you, I don't believe in it.

> The EU can't do tech.

The EU has a large language and cultural barrier that is nonexistent in the USA, it's not only a purely economical output.

ASML is in the EU, are you going to say they can't do tech? Tech couldn't exist without ASML...

On the point of tiny "homogeneous" Nordics:

Each US state is also pretty tiny with a few exceptions, isn't that the model of the USA? Why can't each tiny state also have their provisions for labour protection? Because it's not part of the culture.

Re: Companies to publish salary ranges in job adverts under new EU rules

#149

Post by self_awareness » Thu, Mar 23, 2023, 10:24 AM UTC

How that does change anything?

There are already sites that require salary disclosure on submitting an offer: nofluffjobs.com. It doesn't change anything. Companies are posting inflated salary ranges there, higher than normal, higher than anyone will ever get after the real interview, just to make their offer more interesting to look at.

If there's a gap between what men and women get (and I really doubt this gap exists), then this doesn't change absolutely anything; a position will have a salary RANGE bound to it, and the employer will be freely able to give lower salary to women than to men anyway.

Re: Companies to publish salary ranges in job adverts under new EU rules

#150

Post by th13row » Thu, Mar 23, 2023, 10:28 AM UTC

msm_ wrote: post #137

th13row wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just abhor the EU and everything it stands for. I can't wait to see how Europe comes crashing down.

I love EU and everything it stands for (even if the execution is not always perfect). Why do you want to see Europe crashing down?

Unelected bureaucrats who think they are above the citizens, too much reach, too much influence, insistence in regulating every industry and every activity. This can only end in a can a cashless mass-surveillance social credit system dystopia even worse than China. Give it a few years.