Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Ritalin Gone Wrong

nytimes.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

81–90 of 159 posts

Re: Ritalin Gone Wrong

#81

Post by CamperBob »

thaumaturgy wrote: post #48
tokenadult wrote: post #4

I was interested to see that the researcher who wrote the op-ed, a psychologist based at my alma mater, has participated in some of the research projects he reviews in the op-ed. As I read the comments here, I'll be collecting ideas for questions to ask the local researcher in person as I try to learn more about ADD. I was particularly interested to see that the op-ed criticized several earlier studies for their stud…

I have been off-and-on seriously tempted to find Adderall, but when I stop and think about why I want it, it's because my workload is severe and I don't feel like I'm being productive enough. Then I try to question whether or not I've got unreasonable expectations for how long I can sit in front of a computer and focus on a single task. Over the last couple of years my diet has improved a lot: less meat, less sugar,…

"Eat better, get exercise, reduce distractions" isn't a very sexy answer though, when compared to, "take a pill and become awesome like that guy in Limitless."

I've never understood these sorts of comments, although they appear reliably in almost every story on this subject. What in the world do diet, exercise, sleep, and clean living have to do with the subject of the story, which is the ethics and effectiveness (or lack thereof) of nootropic drug use?

If anything, having seen concrete beneficial effects from the dietary and lifestyle changes you've made to date, doesn't that make you even more curious about how far such effects can be pushed?

Re: Ritalin Gone Wrong

#82

Post by marshray »

sek wrote: post #20

So Ritalin is just a usual mind boosting drug, it has rebound effects and people develop a tolerance. Like cocaine, MDMA, ephedrine and meth. It differs in it's euphoric and adverse effects, but the positive influence is not permanent. Not a single drug can help you in the long term, you have to develop the abilities yourself. These drugs have the opposite effect, because as long as you take them you don't evolve. Th…

Would you advocate the use of cognitive or psych medication that had effects that were permanent? I don't think so.

So you're effectively arguing against the use of that entire class of medication in favor of "developing the abilities yourself".

Don't take this the wrong way but in my experience people who take this line of reasoning have never closely known anyone dealing with real issues in these areas who have actually been helped by medication, or they don't know about it (people are often reluctant to share their stories), or they're a Scientologist.

Re: Ritalin Gone Wrong

#83

Post by ulisesrmzroche »

wahnfrieden wrote: post #68
ulisesrmzroche wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't get the "happier" part, it's very subjective. I take it daily, as the doctor prescribed, and it has made my life noticeably better. If you use the medication only once in a while, do you have ADHD or do you only think that you do?

My doctor prescribed it for daily use too, but I asked him about it and was told it's fine to take it whenever I feel the side effects are worth the relief from ADHD. Where did you get the idea that it's necessary to take it every day or not at all? Adderall is not a drug that requires that. You should ask your doctor more about it.

That's how it's commonly prescribed, but I'm sure it varies depending on the person.

I have stopped taking the medication in the past and I did not have any withdrawal symptoms or felt happier or anything of the sort. I've always used caffeine though.

I guess what I'm saying is that someone who thinks they may have ADHD shouldn't discount methylphedinates because some people have withdrawal symptoms, which mostly happen only when someone is abusing the medication, or is nervous about it in the first place.

Re: Ritalin Gone Wrong

#84

Post by marshray »

psaccounts wrote: post #74
wahnfrieden wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do some research and you'll find homeopathy is bunk. There's no science behind it, studies have shown it completely ineffective, and besides, it's just clean water.

You are saying this out of the research you have done yourself, right? And yes, I have done the research and also have experienced it first hand -- something that Stanford doctors could not do (and an army of 3 different specializations nonetheless) was cured using Homeopathy. Is this placebo effect?

Give it up. It doesn't matter if you're right or wrong, or it cured your cancer or whatever, you'll never get past the skeptics.

Re: Ritalin Gone Wrong

#85

Post by ulisesrmzroche »

rms wrote: post #80
ulisesrmzroche wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I stopped on 56mg for two months and did not have any withdrawal symptoms. You may want to talk to your doctor about this, withdrawal like the one you experienced is not very common, I think.

That's a high dosage, to the level where I expect it is neurotoxic. I think you might be more of the exception than the rule... some withdrawal is to be expected, though not necessarily as strong as OP.

I really don't think my psychiatrist would prescribe me anything that is neurotoxic.

Re: Ritalin Gone Wrong

#86

Post by rms »

tokenadult wrote: post #4

I was interested to see that the researcher who wrote the op-ed, a psychologist based at my alma mater, has participated in some of the research projects he reviews in the op-ed. As I read the comments here, I'll be collecting ideas for questions to ask the local researcher in person as I try to learn more about ADD. I was particularly interested to see that the op-ed criticized several earlier studies for their stud…

I indisputably have adult ADD, though mostly avoid stimulant drugs (not really at all because I have a tendency to avoid drugs, but because I dislike the subjective state of most stimulants, including caffeine).

I spent about six weeks doing a massive amount of research on nutrition. http://www.medicineispersonal.com/contest/home I designed a diet designed to maximize nutrient absorption, similar to diets used to great effect in people with various auto-immune diseases. I'll publish my research eventually but for now I'm happy to share it with people that email me (fair warning -- the paper is 9500 words with 125 references and not exactly easy reading).

I've been on this diet for about two months now, and was hoping that it would help me with ADD -- and I lost ten pounds to get to the lower end of the healthy BMI range and definitely gained physical energy, but I didn't get any smarter or less ADD from diet.

So I think nutritional interventions are unlikely to do much for ADD in people not suffering from marked nutritional deficiencies or on crazy sugar-loaded diets. Among therapeutic inteventions, Cognitive Behavioral Therapy is pretty much the only technique with compelling evidence.

Keep in mind that adult ADD is mostly a condition of lowered productivity. Stimulant drugs increase productivity in basically all adults, ADD or not. Because of fears of neurotoxicity, I stick to Modafanil and use amphetamine sparingly when I need a stronger boost. This works with my rather charmed lifestyle, but I do plan on doing a venture funded startup eventually, and believe I'd be incapable of doing 50-60 hours a week as COO without stimulants.

Re: Ritalin Gone Wrong

#87

Post by sek »

natrius wrote: post #76
sek wrote: post #20

So Ritalin is just a usual mind boosting drug, it has rebound effects and people develop a tolerance. Like cocaine, MDMA, ephedrine and meth. It differs in it's euphoric and adverse effects, but the positive influence is not permanent. Not a single drug can help you in the long term, you have to develop the abilities yourself. These drugs have the opposite effect, because as long as you take them you don't evolve. Th…

"Not a single drug can help you in the long term, you have to develop the abilities yourself." What is your proof of this claim? As with most generalizations, I doubt there is one.

Tell me which mind boosting drug does not wear off?

Re: Ritalin Gone Wrong

#88

Post by ulisesrmzroche »

rue wrote: post #25
ulisesrmzroche wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I stopped on 56mg for two months and did not have any withdrawal symptoms. You may want to talk to your doctor about this, withdrawal like the one you experienced is not very common, I think.

I'd be interested to hear why the GP thought tapering would be worse. It's almost universally the better option.

I think it's probably a lack of familiarity with this sort of thing. Sort of like how folks are thinking 56mgs is insane, and 25mgs are almost cocaine and speed.

High dosages are up in the 150+, more like people who binge on 3 pills, or crush and snort them. That would create withdrawal symptoms and be neurotoxic. Therapeutic dosages (like the ones the doctor will prescribe you) are supposed to be just that.

Re: Ritalin Gone Wrong

#89

Post by rms »

ulisesrmzroche wrote: post #85
rms wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a high dosage, to the level where I expect it is neurotoxic. I think you might be more of the exception than the rule... some withdrawal is to be expected, though not necessarily as strong as OP.

I really don't think my psychiatrist would prescribe me anything that is neurotoxic.

High dose stimulants in rats are neurotoxic. http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/neuro/20091104/msgs/931964.html Your mileage may vary, but I think prescribing patients >50mg amphetamine is often irresponsible. Ask your psychiatrist at what dosage he thinks amphetamine is neurotoxic. 90mg maybe? Doctors agree that a certain dose is neurotoxic but disagree on what that dosage is. 60mg is the official maximum safe dose, but it's not like you should put all of your trust in the FDA. Given clear stimulant burn-out I have noticed in multiple taking >50mg of amphetamine daily, I have no doubt that dosages like that cause negative neurological effects and that caution is merited in amphetamine dosing.

Re: Ritalin Gone Wrong

#90

Post by Osiris »

dlytle wrote: post #5
tokenadult wrote: post #4

I was interested to see that the researcher who wrote the op-ed, a psychologist based at my alma mater, has participated in some of the research projects he reviews in the op-ed. As I read the comments here, I'll be collecting ideas for questions to ask the local researcher in person as I try to learn more about ADD. I was particularly interested to see that the op-ed criticized several earlier studies for their stud…

I'm currently taking adult ADD meds (Adderall); it's a double edged sword, and I'd personally really prefer to find another method. The primary problem is, during any sort of transition I would be pretty useless, and I can't afford to take that long being useless with my current job. I went cold turkey from 25mg of Adderall XR daily, and for about a week and a half I was absolutely dead. I'd have a splitting headache…

I was also taking Adderall XR 25mg for about 2 years until I had to change doctors and the new doctor was concerned about my high resting heart rate so he gave 1 month of 10mg. After that was gone, I was pretty unproductive for about 2 months. I simply had a hard time concentrating, like I was in a haze.

I just restarted on Adderall (generic, 5mg x2 a day) and the side-effects are definitely difficult to deal with. I am able to hyper-focus but I also get irritable, daily headaches and exhaustion when it starts wearing off. I tend to take it one in the morning as I start work and perhaps once in the afternoon if I find that I need it, but I don't take it on weekends at all.

There's definitely something to be said for behavioral adjustment rather than medication. That's how my mom deals with it, but even so she's pretty scatter-brained.

Post reply on HN