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Ritalin Gone Wrong

nytimes.com

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Re: Ritalin Gone Wrong

#61

Post by pizza »

Ritalin (methylphenidate) and Adderall (Dextroamphetamine / Levoamphetamine) are interesting and powerful nootropics (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nootropic). I haven't tried them yet, although I am looking forward to the day I do. However, they do have some serious negative aspects; they are addictive and come with a substantial 'crash'. This is where the racetams come in!

The racetam family consists of nootropics that enhance mainly memory recall, although I certainly feel there's an increase in ability to think of new ideas and convey them lucidly. They're not all that new (first developed in the 60s) and are widely regarded as non-toxic, in both the short and long term (sorry, don't know how to find the study. However, as anecdotal evidence, this guy did 80 GRAMS of piracetam in one sitting, which is 100x the regular dose http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=153468).

The stimulation from piracetam, the racetam that is most commonly used, is sort of similar to caffeine stimulation but less pronounced; I have also never experienced a piracetam crash, even after nasal insufflation of a gram and a half. Piracetam also makes me much more productive, much more than caffeine ever did or probably will ever do, and I highly suggest it for anyone who is interested in nootropics!

Re: Ritalin Gone Wrong

#62

Post by danneu »

rkon wrote: post #27

Parents should really take note of the studies and conclusions in this article. As someone diagnosed with ADHD who has tried numerous medications (Adderall regular and XR, Vyvanse, Strattera, Focalin, and Wellbutrin) I have to say I would never ever EVER allow a young child of mine to take any of them. I can't even fathom how confusing and damaging the side effects of these medications could be to the fragile psyche…

I take a low dose of Vyvanse and I agree. Diagnosed in my 20s.

Always dreaded school. The 8-hour-day stagnant, unchallenging classroom model never compelled me. Maybe it's time to accept that if a kid isn't compelled by our education system we might have a systemic problem that can't be fixed by prescribing kids speed until they can make it through 8 hours without having a wayward thought.

A low dose of amphetamine helped me focus on my ambitions after I'd spent my entire life scavenging for freetime to chase them outside of school. But frankly, I couldn't tell you what came first: my "ADD" or my contempt for the education system.

Re: Ritalin Gone Wrong

#63

Post by deno »

cullenking wrote: post #56
rkon wrote: post #27

Parents should really take note of the studies and conclusions in this article. As someone diagnosed with ADHD who has tried numerous medications (Adderall regular and XR, Vyvanse, Strattera, Focalin, and Wellbutrin) I have to say I would never ever EVER allow a young child of mine to take any of them. I can't even fathom how confusing and damaging the side effects of these medications could be to the fragile psyche…

To get through college, while working, I used adderall and ritalin on and off as needed. I was floored when I first got on it, my doctor tried me on the ritalin patch at the highest dose (32 mg I think). I dropped down and was still amazed with how hard hitting this stuff was. Granted, people have different skin and uptake I am sure, but I couldn't imagine giving a kid a patch which basically made me feel like I had…

The ‘high’ goes away after two weeks of continuous use, but the cognitive benefits persist. This is exactly why ADHD medications work long term.

> But in fact, the loss of appetite and sleeplessness in children first prescribed attention-deficit drugs do fade (…). They apparently develop a tolerance to the drug, and thus its efficacy disappears.

Those are side effects in the context of treating ADHD.

Here’s a great summary: http://www.reddit.com/r/ADD/comments/no6hp/would_anyone_be_i...

Re: Ritalin Gone Wrong

#64

Post by ulisesrmzroche »

wahnfrieden wrote: post #34
ulisesrmzroche wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I stopped on 56mg for two months and did not have any withdrawal symptoms. You may want to talk to your doctor about this, withdrawal like the one you experienced is not very common, I think.

When I used to be on an Adderall IR prescription, I didn't have any withdrawals but the effects declined very noticeably after a few days use, and the side effects worsened. I started taking it only a few days a week at most instead and was much happier. If I didn't have work that needed the extra focus on a particular day, there was no need for taking it that day. I've never understood the people who use it daily, i…

I don't get the "happier" part, it's very subjective. I take it daily, as the doctor prescribed, and it has made my life noticeably better.

If you use the medication only once in a while, do you have ADHD or do you only think that you do?

Re: Ritalin Gone Wrong

#65

Post by angstrom »

hop wrote: post #19

I have a real problem labeling 10 year olds that get bored and fidgety in boring situations with having a brain disorder and giving them speed. Find me 10 successful entreprenuers and I bet I can show you 10 people who had a tough time sitting through unengaging lesson plans in school. Doesn't help with ballooning class sizes either.

I wouldn't be surprised if there is a correlation between children's transition from asset to expense in the typical urban household.

As a child I would've been the perfect ADD candidate, but with plenty of stimulation in the form of work on my parent's farm, I winded up learning how to create outlets for my restless nature. There's nothing more boring or repetitive than driving a tractor around a very large field. My mind constantly wandered and in a few occasions led to damaged equipment because of it. Lesson learned and relearned. Another example would be pacing back and forth waiting to switch the milkers on the cows during the bi-daily 1-2 hr chores. Cleaning equipment, feeding, manure removal, stacking hay bales by hand. Repetitive, repetitive, repetitive, grueling.

School was fun by comparison. Even mundane lessons had their silver lining (at least it wasn't manual labor). And when I wasn't occupied with chores or school I found other stimulation; building a large purple martin bird house, flying model rockets, helping with mechanical repair, drawing, reading, shooting guns, exploring, painting ceramics, playing trumpet, and eventually, playing with our computer. The avenues of stimulation were not forced, but open. Most importantly: I could use the things I was learning in school to see how they had purpose, if not for my own satisfaction.

Why do these kids fidget and lack focus? In my non expert opinion it's because they lack both the perspective and a positive feedback loop to stimulate their own minds. It's not a disorder of the brain by any means, but a lack of purpose. Children reject the situations because they're contrived hoops with no meaning. The constant question in any child's mind is "HOW AM I GOING TO USE THIS?!" If they can't see the purpose of the lesson they haven't gained anything more than a useless set of facts.

Re: Ritalin Gone Wrong

#66

Post by deno »

jneen wrote: post #9

I was diagnosed with ADD as a child, and have experienced firsthand the kind of dependencies these drugs can create. I wasn't able to stop taking Dexedrine (essentially the same as Ritalin) until halfway through my first semester of college, when I undertook a daily practice of meditation. Now I've come to realize that "lack of attentiveness" is part of the human condition. We can make it worse by excessive stimulati…

If you can meditate, or sit still in one place without any stimulus for that matter, you’re quite lucky. It’s an impossible task for most people with ADHD.

> Now I've come to realize that "lack of attentiveness" is part of the human condition.

No. ADHD is a hereditary neurological disorder. One of the first things that you’ll see on Wikipedia’s page on ADHD is a PET scan comparing dopamine transporter availability in a healthy brain and one of a person diagnosed with ADHD.

In children, the biological differences are real, and can by no means be explained by “experience.” E.g.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21757514/ns/health-mental_health...

Re: Ritalin Gone Wrong

#67

Post by cullenking »

deno wrote: post #63
cullenking wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To get through college, while working, I used adderall and ritalin on and off as needed. I was floored when I first got on it, my doctor tried me on the ritalin patch at the highest dose (32 mg I think). I dropped down and was still amazed with how hard hitting this stuff was. Granted, people have different skin and uptake I am sure, but I couldn't imagine giving a kid a patch which basically made me feel like I had…

The ‘high’ goes away after two weeks of continuous use, but the cognitive benefits persist. This is exactly why ADHD medications work long term. > But in fact, the loss of appetite and sleeplessness in children first prescribed attention-deficit drugs do fade (…). They apparently develop a tolerance to the drug, and thus its efficacy disappears. Those are side effects in the context of treating ADHD. Here’s a great s…

I know this is another anecdotal response, but, the high definitely didn't go away, I just became more mentally accustomed to it. It's exactly the same for an alcoholic who drinks excessively everyday. After a month, the same amount of alcohol has less effect (to an extent).

I strongly feel that if the parents of children on ADD meds actually used the meds themselves, many of them would decide on alternative treatments.

Re: Ritalin Gone Wrong

#68

Post by wahnfrieden »

ulisesrmzroche wrote: post #64
wahnfrieden wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I used to be on an Adderall IR prescription, I didn't have any withdrawals but the effects declined very noticeably after a few days use, and the side effects worsened. I started taking it only a few days a week at most instead and was much happier. If I didn't have work that needed the extra focus on a particular day, there was no need for taking it that day. I've never understood the people who use it daily, i…

I don't get the "happier" part, it's very subjective. I take it daily, as the doctor prescribed, and it has made my life noticeably better. If you use the medication only once in a while, do you have ADHD or do you only think that you do?

My doctor prescribed it for daily use too, but I asked him about it and was told it's fine to take it whenever I feel the side effects are worth the relief from ADHD. Where did you get the idea that it's necessary to take it every day or not at all? Adderall is not a drug that requires that. You should ask your doctor more about it.

Re: Ritalin Gone Wrong

#69

Post by vlad »

If I remember correctly, a recent article pointed out that prescriptions in every category of drugs have increased year over year at a similar or greater rate, and that prescriptions for ADHD and ADD have actually been increasing slower than expected compared to other categories of drugs. An article like this should qualify the magnitude this way.

Secondly, as companies release new drugs that can target specific conditions better or safer than ever, treat conditions that were not treatable before, it makes sense that doctors prescribe medicines more and more often every year, especially as patents on proven drugs expire and the medications become available as cheap generics.

Re: Ritalin Gone Wrong

#70

Post by deno »

jinushaun wrote: post #13
itmag wrote: post #3

I'd be interested in hearing what a (non-kooky) fringe scientist like Seth Roberts has to say on ADD. It always seemed weird to me that huge amounts of people should be taking Speed on a daily basis. Has there been any research into treating ADD with stuff like low-carb diets, vitamin D, limiting EMF exposure, limiting videogames, fish oil, filtering chemicals out of drinking water? I'm just throwing those out there…

I graduated with a degree in biochemistry hoping to get into the biotech/pharmaceutical industry, but was turned off by the emphasis on treaments instead of cures. Ritalin and Aderall seems analogous to taking pain killers to treat an open wound—masks the symptoms (pain) but doesn't address the cause (open wound). With the explosion of ADD prescriptions, one has to wonder if our society/environment is causing this pr…

> Ritalin and Aderall seems analogous to taking pain killers to treat an open wound—masks the symptoms (pain) but doesn't address the cause (open wound).

And how are you going to address the open wound? There’s no brain surgery for ADHD.

A better analogy is that of wearing glasses. Glasses don’t actually fix your eyesight, and you need them all the time, but they allow you to function normally. Medications used for ADHD treatment are exactly like that.

> With the explosion of ADD prescriptions

There’s an explosion of sensationalist reporting by general media. ADHD is still under-diagnosed in USA, and it’s even worse in Europe.

It’s exactly the same as the “explosion” of autism. No, the vaccines are not causing autism, just because there’s more data and a better awareness of the disorder.

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