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Leaving China

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Re: Leaving China

#591

Post by mytailorisrich »

satvikpendem wrote: post #197
mytailorisrich wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and it seemed inevitable that China would absorb Taiwan. No, it's unrealistic to think the the ROC would ever effectively surrender to the PRC however HK's reintegration was managed.

Your statement does not falsify the quoted statement; both can be true that the ROC would not surrender and that China might inevitably absorb Taiwan. If we want to get really pedantic, no timeline was also stated, so this could also be 50 to 500 years from now.

Your comment is indeed pedantic and misses the point.

Obviously, the context the meaning was that there was a cause to effect link between how things were going in China and, especially HK, and the likelihood of a reunification with Taiwan.

So I pointed out that the situation in HK is not really relevant because, even if it had gone perfectly 'well' the ROC would still never had surrendered to the communists. The bottom line is that regime change on the mainland is a necessary condition.

Re: Leaving China

#592

Post by mytailorisrich »

re-thc wrote: post #262
chii wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think hindsight might've clouded your assessment of the attitude during the time pre-HK crackdown. It was originally a time of optimistic hope that China would become more and more democratic, and the integration of HK back to the mainland will not have been hard (at least, china would meet somewhere in the middle).

There was already a wave of people considering, planning and did actually leave pre-1997 and around that time. A few did go back to HK afterwards when things looked better but left again due to the current issues. I don't know who was optimistic. The West? Definitely not those in HK. It was a time when anti-China sentiment was high and supported by the media, artists, etc as the trend (vs the crackdown now). There we…

British HK was an act of aggression and a national humiliation for China.

The ROC/Taiwan was also happy to see the British go and their regret was that the communists succeeded where they had failed (and in fact did nothing at all as all foreign settlements were kicked out by the PRC).

Re: Leaving China

#593

Post by satvikpendem »

mytailorisrich wrote: post #591
satvikpendem wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your statement does not falsify the quoted statement; both can be true that the ROC would not surrender and that China might inevitably absorb Taiwan. If we want to get really pedantic, no timeline was also stated, so this could also be 50 to 500 years from now.

Your comment is indeed pedantic and misses the point. Obviously, the context the meaning was that there was a cause to effect link between how things were going in China and, especially HK, and the likelihood of a reunification with Taiwan. So I pointed out that the situation in HK is not really relevant because, even if it had gone perfectly 'well' the ROC would still never had surrendered to the communists. The bot…

Again, it doesn't matter what ROC would have done, they don't have the military power of the PRC, which was my point.

Re: Leaving China

#594

Post by coupdejarnac »

tomohelix wrote: post #86
muyuu wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

India perhaps, in the long term, could challenge the US directly - but the idea that Vietnam or Thailand would openly challenge the USA in a hot conflict is laughable culture is not the reason these people are leaving China, but an open hostility towards foreigners during recent years that is creating a very difficult position for expats living there

Let say China and the US come into open conflict and everyone is forced to choose a side, which side do you think Vietnam will pick? China and Vietnam share a long history and culture. They are also right next to each other and have the same government type. Vietnam has openly showed their desire to work with China at the cost of the US. They sent some top diplomats to China right after the US diplomats came to visit…

This is the kind of comment on HN that really, really annoys me. It's the kind of superficial analysis that seems reasonable only if you haven't studied any history or had any in-depth interactions with the people you're talking about. How many Vietnamese people have you spoken with, and what are their opinions of China?

Re: Leaving China

#595

Post by s1artibartfast »

aflag wrote: post #585
s1artibartfast wrote: post #562

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My counterpoint is that while "people are people", they are impacted and influenced by their material, cultural, and political circumstances. People can become hardened, callous, mean, and damaged to a greater or lesser degree in durable ways that outlast political circumstance. If you beat and abuse a child, and that child will be more likely to beat and abuse others. This is called the cycle of violence. You can ab…

I understand and agree with what you said. But I'd say what you're describing is how people are affected in a superficial level. In the façade they present to strangers. However, I interpreted the original post to mean that, in an intimate level (within a group of friends who trust each other), it won't be that different. But yes, it may be that you are in a place where for whatever reason you can't form meaningful r…

Yeah I think you get my point. I was mostly objecting to the strict equivalence they were claiming. Across cultures you will find some relative constants in human behavior. For example, Most people love their children no matter where you go, but even that can mean different things depending on the norms and that culture.

I would push back a little bit on the idea that these differences are purely superficial. Humans can have real cultural differences regarding where they find meaning in life, how they relate to others in society, and if they ever find satisfaction, happiness, and fulfillment in their own lives.

Just because such differences can not be summed and weighed against each other to determine which culture is "better", does not mean they are the same.

This is the post-modern sentiment that I reject. E.G the differences can not be compared so therefore they are the same.

Re: Leaving China

#596

Post by fortuna86 »

concordDance wrote: post #495
fortuna86 wrote: post #335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

every single election in the US is subject to a complete audit after the fact. counting quickly and verifying accurately after the fact are not mutually exclusive.

How hard an election is to rig is not the issue,itshow obviously unriggable it appears to the losing voters. That's the (well, an) important thing the American system is missing.

I disagree. There was no evidence of fraud in 2020, yet the losing party at 80-90% rate still believes it was stolen. At that point, there's nothing that can be done to dissuade.

Re: Leaving China

#597

Post by fortuna86 »

tatrajim wrote: post #361
fortuna86 wrote: post #335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

every single election in the US is subject to a complete audit after the fact. counting quickly and verifying accurately after the fact are not mutually exclusive.

If you're an American, you'll be all too aware of what a mess the US electoral system is, subject to varying rules across thousands of jurisdictions, large and small, and involving now prolonged "early voting", "absentee voting" for a wide variety of reasons, mail in ballots only for some states, little or no ID verification for some states, outdated voter rolls, legal "ballot harvesting" etc. Growing up we used to p…

If I understand correctly, neither point has to do with electronic voting.

Re: Leaving China

#598

Post by RedCondor »

fortuna86 wrote: post #578
RedCondor wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm Latin American and very, very happy we have China as an alternative to America's tyrannical Monroe Doctrine. The demonization of China feels incredibly absurd, like when someone wearing an exceedingly ugly outfit, lacking self-awareness, tries to criticize someone else's fashion.

Your account was created 15 days ago and is used exclusively for posting inflammatory political nonsense. Also, you do realize that China is the most hyper-capitalist country in the world, don't you?

I'm just a communist programmer that hasn't been here for ages because I got bored of the hive-mind. Literally anything left-of-right-of-centre immediately gets flagged (if not outright banned by the mods), all in service of sheltering little liberal coder worker bees from scary labour propaganda.

I came back for a bit to get the latest on ChatGPT, and then noticed that, unsurprisingly, this place is crawling with demented Chinaphobes spreading whatever third-hand hearsay they can find about China. I'm vastly more knowledgeable about this subject than probably everyone here, and have tested my resources against way more capable critics, so sharing some disruptive well-chosen resources here and there isn't too hard.

The fact that the average stance here is something like "I'm not a Marxist, I don't like Marxism, I don't actually know much about Marxism, but I do know this: China isn't Marxist" is just hilarious to me.

Re: Leaving China

#599

Post by [deleted] »

slowmotiony wrote: post #152
tiny_ta wrote: post #13

It's so interesting to read this perspective since it drives home "the grass is always greener.." for me. I've lived a pretty charmed life in the US for the past few years (like the majority of HN, I imagine) but I find myself longing to move to a country with dense cities, affordable housing in the city center, great public infrastructure and a modicum of agreement among the citizens and China fits the bill pretty g…

"As a sidenote, the author says he does not like his kids playing "war" in Chinese playgrounds - I wonder how he will feel about the active shooter drills that are now part of every kids life in the US. Note: I'm not Chinese." Well obviously, since if you were Chinese you'd know that kids in China are doing drills to protect themselves against psychos with knives who attack schools. Like actual grownups with machetes…

[deleted]

Re: Leaving China

#600

Post by candiodari »

satvikpendem wrote: post #593
mytailorisrich wrote: post #591

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your comment is indeed pedantic and misses the point. Obviously, the context the meaning was that there was a cause to effect link between how things were going in China and, especially HK, and the likelihood of a reunification with Taiwan. So I pointed out that the situation in HK is not really relevant because, even if it had gone perfectly 'well' the ROC would still never had surrendered to the communists. The bot…

Again, it doesn't matter what ROC would have done, they don't have the military power of the PRC, which was my point.

China has never performed well in any war, including wars where you'd think they'd have overwhelming advantages.
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