Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Leaving China

persuasion.community

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

431–440 of 686 posts

Re: Leaving China

#431

Post by FpUser »

chii wrote: post #282
EFreethought wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have never been to China, but to me it seems that with all their faults that ultimately Deng, Jiang and Hu wanted what was best for China. But Xi seems to care about Xi.

It may also be possible that Xi is imagining the revival of china as a world empire that would rival that of the USA today, and this is born of both hubris, as well as egomaniacal desire of "washing away the shameful century". I think people like that are the reasons why the world isn't at peace. China could've become the next japan. They could've probably overtaken the US that way too. But now, they've "alerted" the…

>"the US will never let china become a superpower."

It already is. To the less degree than the US for now. Could go either way in the future. But if you think that the US could go on forever dictating what other countries allowed to do I think you are wrong.

Re: Leaving China

#432

Post by chii »

ashconnor wrote: post #424
chii wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But even with these issues resolved I believe the PAP would still win elections It only takes one person going "rogue" to topple this system of trust. Is it so hard to imagine that not all authoritarian systems could be continuously benevolent?

You’re right of course but I think the more likely cause will be typical. A policy misstep, political scandal, protests, external factors etc. The PAP will be booted out democratically if it happens at all.

But having a party that can, during the "good times" manipulate the situation, such that during a bad time, they can still stay in power. Aka, they only "pull the trigger" after they know they'd be kicked out, thus preventing themselves from getting kicked out.

Which is why the preparations should be prevented, even against someone who seems benevolent at the time.

Re: Leaving China

#433

Post by FpUser »

throwawaymaths wrote: post #405
SkyMarshal wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Completely agree. There was even historical evidence that narrative was wrong and that an authoritarian government could co-exist with an industrial economy - pre-WWII Germany and Japan. Development, industrialization, and capitalism don’t automatically bring democracy, freedoms, and political liberalization. That was all just a BS fiction foisted on the US public and policy class by voracious banks, corps, and their…

But consider that economic development helped turn south korea and Taiwan from brutal dictatorships to relatively stable and sustainable democracies. It wasn't crazy to think it would work in China, and it looked like there was buy-in and progress for an (if slow) gradual bringing into the fold process that suddenly t reversed course in 2016-ish

>"It wasn't crazy to think it would work in China"

Maybe eventually it will, would just take long time. There are always ups and downs.

Re: Leaving China

#435

Post by known »

arroz wrote: post #50
inconceivable wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

indeed. vietnam is run by the communist party of vietnam. remember, they won the war. that's why there is no south vietnam and north vietnam anymore (unlike korea). there is no free speech. there is no rule of law. there is no free market. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communist_Party_of_Vietnam i wonder how long it will take before we start hearing "i hate the VCP but i love vietnamese people/culture". probably when…

Only china and India will ever really be able to challenge the US Big countries with big population Maybe Nigeria and Indonesia too, but it wouldn’t happen this century

[dead]

Re: Leaving China

#436

Post by hnfong »

antondd wrote: post #210

Warning: this thread is very likely to be heavily astroturfed by Chinese influence operations. This is exactly the type of question and discussion that provides a perfect opportunity to change or chip at your opinion on China. Hence: - “Taiwan is acqshually a dictatorship” - “The integration of HK was managed extremely well” - “China may have X, but whatabout Y in the US/decadent West/Europe” - “That’s it, I’m moving…

If you can't imagine some percentage of Chinese being genuinely patriotic, you probably need to expand your imagination a bit. Not that I agree with the narratives of those comments, but isn't it at least possible they are independent people with actual lives, and they genuinely believed what they wrote? (You might attribute their views to their upbringing, but the same can be said to everyone)

With your logic I can probably conclude that Warren Buffet is a CIA shill.

Re: Leaving China

#437

Post by tfcata »

albertopv wrote: post #188
RedCondor wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm Latin American and very, very happy we have China as an alternative to America's tyrannical Monroe Doctrine. The demonization of China feels incredibly absurd, like when someone wearing an exceedingly ugly outfit, lacking self-awareness, tries to criticize someone else's fashion.

And yet you are writing it on an american website and no one is censoring you. In China you have to be very careful of what you say and write, or you may just disappear from society, they don't need to kill anyone anymore, they even did it to former president, live. They remove you and that's it.

[dead]

Re: Leaving China

#439

Post by onethought »

ninjin wrote: post #415
onethought wrote: post #410

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't say it was anything to do with being "Morally weak". And you didn't see a "many different responses" -- you saw 1: Lockdowns. The whole world did them. Where they didn't do them, hospitals got trashed and lots of people died. Lockdowns ended when vaccines began, China never got that option, because its population didn't take up any of the vaccines to a high enough percentage. Also, there was never enough mRN…

> I didn't say it was anything to do with being "Morally weak". My apologies, I did not mean to imply that you did. Merely that this is the usual response I hear from those supporting the PRC position. > Lockdowns ended when vaccines began, China never got that option, because its population didn't take up any of the vaccines to a high enough percentage. Also, there was never enough mRNA vaccines available to supply…

Their vaccine (sinovac) didn’t work very well… there was no point mandating it.

Despite what you may have read Sweden also limited people’s movement and gathering and did localised lockdowns.

What other technique do you think is available to stop a contagion spreading? You limit people’s proximity or their susceptibility … that’s it. That’s the whole tool belt, you don’t need to be an expert, just intuitively it’s easy to understand.

Re: Leaving China

#440

Post by midoridensha »

hnfong wrote: post #430
midoridensha wrote: post #376

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The author has lived there for 20 years, married there, has kids who go to local schools, yet calls himself an expat, and everyone here seems to accept that as an obvious truth. If they refer to themselves as an expat, why are you questioning this? Do you demand proof when someone refers to themselves as male or female too? I know people living in the US who have been there for 20 years and call themselves expats to…

> >At some point people have to come to terms that this isn't about some technical definition of "immigrant" vs "expat" but a deeper prejudice. > At some point, people like you need to stop trying to make everything about racism. But it is. (Kinda.) If you don't look East-Asian in China, the predominant assumption is that you're an "expat". And statistically this is almost always true -- Chinese nationality is extrem…

Sure, because China basically allows no immigration, but that's not what the OP was referring to, he's complaining about privileged white people and their use of the terms.
Post reply on HN