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Leaving China

persuasion.community

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Re: Leaving China

#121

Post by meh8881 »

RedCondor wrote: post #105
ren_engineer wrote: post #64

>But in order to live everyday life, most people living in China find it necessary to turn a blind eye until it affects them directly. That became impossible during the Covid-19 pandemic, when the force of China’s technocracy was on full display it's amazing how people were able to delude themselves for so long, Tiananmen should have been enough to make people and governments realize things weren't going to change

[dead]

Are you citing the Chinese government as the best source on supposed Chinese government atrocities?

Re: Leaving China

#122

Post by mytailorisrich »

jasonjei wrote: post #63

I used to travel to China all the time for work during my first job in 2008. Those times were super optimistic. Hong Kong was filled with Chinese pride, and it seemed inevitable that China would absorb Taiwan. China had just hosted the Olympics. I visited Hong Kong late 2018 after many years of not having been there. It was a very different place from the Hong Kong I had visited in 2009-2011. The energy was a bit dar…

> and it seemed inevitable that China would absorb Taiwan.

No, it's unrealistic to think the the ROC would ever effectively surrender to the PRC however HK's reintegration was managed.

Re: Leaving China

#123

Post by nonethewiser »

jzb wrote: post #75
tiny_ta wrote: post #13

It's so interesting to read this perspective since it drives home "the grass is always greener.." for me. I've lived a pretty charmed life in the US for the past few years (like the majority of HN, I imagine) but I find myself longing to move to a country with dense cities, affordable housing in the city center, great public infrastructure and a modicum of agreement among the citizens and China fits the bill pretty g…

Serious question, if you have to sacrifice personal freedom, what does the great society look like you are willing to sacrifice it for? What freedoms are you willing to give up for what societal benefit? I’m genuinely curious because every person defines personal freedom differently. And great society is very subjective.

Im curious as well because everyone is an individual and no one is a society. So who exactly are we sacrificing individuality for?

Re: Leaving China

#124

Post by partiallypro »

tomohelix wrote: post #86
muyuu wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

India perhaps, in the long term, could challenge the US directly - but the idea that Vietnam or Thailand would openly challenge the USA in a hot conflict is laughable culture is not the reason these people are leaving China, but an open hostility towards foreigners during recent years that is creating a very difficult position for expats living there

Let say China and the US come into open conflict and everyone is forced to choose a side, which side do you think Vietnam will pick? China and Vietnam share a long history and culture. They are also right next to each other and have the same government type. Vietnam has openly showed their desire to work with China at the cost of the US. They sent some top diplomats to China right after the US diplomats came to visit…

A vast majority of Vietnamese view China in a worse light than the US, and China and Vietnam have recently had quarrels over the South China Sea. They share a lot of history...and some of that history includes China invading Vietnam several times. I wouldn't count on Vietnam siding with China in a global conflict.

Re: Leaving China

#125

Post by nonethewiser »

tiny_ta wrote: post #111
jzb wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Serious question, if you have to sacrifice personal freedom, what does the great society look like you are willing to sacrifice it for? What freedoms are you willing to give up for what societal benefit? I’m genuinely curious because every person defines personal freedom differently. And great society is very subjective.

I appreciate your question because I have spent a lot of time in the past thinking about this :) > I’m genuinely curious because every person defines personal freedom differently. And great society is very subjective. I couldn't agree more! I believe that all of us have to give up some personal freedom if we want to live in a functional society. I may want to blast music from my rooftop at 3AM but I must curb that ur…

Are you really giving up personal freedom if you’re consciously deciding not to do something out of consideration for others?

Usually it becomes a problem because you are infringing on someone else’s personal freedom. So it’s still about maximizing personal freedom in that case.

Re: Leaving China

#126

Post by nebukhadnezzar »

RedCondor wrote: post #105
ren_engineer wrote: post #64

>But in order to live everyday life, most people living in China find it necessary to turn a blind eye until it affects them directly. That became impossible during the Covid-19 pandemic, when the force of China’s technocracy was on full display it's amazing how people were able to delude themselves for so long, Tiananmen should have been enough to make people and governments realize things weren't going to change

[dead]

What do you win or get out of the attempts to rewrite atrocities like they have never happened in history? What did the victims that died that week do to you? https://imgur.com/a/q8ZIS

Re: Leaving China

#127

Post by dumpster_fire »

duxup wrote: post #108
jasonjei wrote: post #63

I used to travel to China all the time for work during my first job in 2008. Those times were super optimistic. Hong Kong was filled with Chinese pride, and it seemed inevitable that China would absorb Taiwan. China had just hosted the Olympics. I visited Hong Kong late 2018 after many years of not having been there. It was a very different place from the Hong Kong I had visited in 2009-2011. The energy was a bit dar…

>Chinese diaspora I had no idea how wide it is until a family member married someone from Asia and he explained ot me that his family thinks of themselves as ethnically Chinese, although they're totally disconnected from China.

Wait why is that a problem? Nationality and ethnicity are two different things.

Re: Leaving China

#128

Post by nazka »

tiny_ta wrote: post #13

It's so interesting to read this perspective since it drives home "the grass is always greener.." for me. I've lived a pretty charmed life in the US for the past few years (like the majority of HN, I imagine) but I find myself longing to move to a country with dense cities, affordable housing in the city center, great public infrastructure and a modicum of agreement among the citizens and China fits the bill pretty g…

I don’t understand. Why not Europe?

There are so many great countries/cities in Europe for exactly what you are looking for! And much more. You will avoid all the negative points from China that someone listed on another comment. While improving your life beyond work. 1-3 hours to so many wide destinations from Paris to London, Amsterdam, Oslo, Jerusalem… All while beyond guns you will have same to more freedom. Less crime. On the health side unless you need the best surgeon in the field, you will find overall better healthcare across all level. Education is great to on part with the best (for kids with countries like Norway or Sweden it’s definitely the best. Others are catching up). And I can go on and on with cost of living compare to major US cities, the variety of cultures, landscapes, way of life etc… all packed in a US size continent.

I think if Americans are easy to the idea to leave the US and sacrifice some things, they will find a wide range of interesting opportunities.

Re: Leaving China

#129

Post by maskedinvader »

Can we at HN at-least refer to the author as immigrant as opposed to expats? what's an expat anyways ? why does the western world to get to make these tiers where they are expats but arabs, asians, africans etc are all immigrants ?

Re: Leaving China

#130

Post by scrubs »

hayst4ck wrote: post #116
coldtea wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Meanwhile, Taiwan’s value to the Chinese diaspora can’t be understated—it’s a bastion of a mandarin-speaking democracy. A bastion of democracy which has been a right wing dictatorship from its inception until the 90s. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Terror_(Taiwan)

I watched a Taiwanese election in Taiwan. I observed their polling stations. A Taiwanese citizen started a conversation and educated me, an American, on democracy and elections. This Taiwanese person told me that elections are for the loser. If the loser does not believe in the validity of the election, it serves no purpose. That's why electronic voting machines are anti-thetical to the purpose of an election. Electr…

For the loser? That's like the mob's take on what practical operational control means.

>My subjective experience as an American was that Democracy is more healthy in Taiwan than it is in America.

Cause why?

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