81–90 of 114 posts
1. If you put a sixth grader in second grade, they wont be happy because they are doing a lot less than they should and could be doing. I think this feeling applies for sixth year students, that know they could be starting a real job or building a family. 2. Academia is built on the the theoretical. Learning is cool, and theories are nice, and colleges are full of kids that don't bear the responsibility of their acti…
overwork, bad salaries, competition, bad relationship with supervisors are often mentioned but I think this is not the whole picture. I would focus more on research itself. Research can be really shitty. It's extremely open ended, so you may be a brilliant student with exams, but feel clueless about what to do when there is no clear problem and no clear solution. Science is now extremely incremental compared to 50 ye…
That alone makes it very rough to keep up the high level of motivation. And then add the other quirks of academia on top of that.
Another factor I’ve wondered in both myself and others: those who choose to be grad students often do so because of irrational unresolved issues or dissatisfactions with life. Grad work doesn’t help with these issues at all, only adds more problems or compounds them, and leaves you with a good amount of bitterness that you might not even understand. Increased age or progress increases the chance that these unresolved…
And I myself am a bit guilty of becoming so competitive and entering grad school partially because of unresolved issues.
I think the psychological aspect of first failure and injustice is rough on grad students. Hypercompetitive to get into a good enough BS program to get into a MS program yet unlike post-BS tracks like med school, 98% aren't getting that job in academia and will fail out. Its a pyramid with a very pointy top, much like college football usually doesn't lead to a NFL career. Meanwhile the "failures" who were not smart e…
But if you don't take out loans, you almost certainly guarantee failure to reach the top of the pyramid. So we're stuck with two bad choices. Either people take a risk on loans, or the academic pyramid becomes populated with only those with burnable wealth.
I've got bad news, it already largely is like that. Maybe not via the person themself, but typically by their spouse then.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
You can do a BS and work in the industry. Nobody forces you to get a job in the academia.
_Someone_ needs to get jobs in the academia, otherwise after a generation we will not have anyone to train and offer those BS degrees. Or should we only allow those with plenty of capital to pursue academia?
overwork, bad salaries, competition, bad relationship with supervisors are often mentioned but I think this is not the whole picture. I would focus more on research itself. Research can be really shitty. It's extremely open ended, so you may be a brilliant student with exams, but feel clueless about what to do when there is no clear problem and no clear solution. Science is now extremely incremental compared to 50 ye…
As a final year PhD student I wholeheartedly agree with this. That alone makes it very rough to keep up the high level of motivation. And then add the other quirks of academia on top of that.
Sorry if this comes off as gruff, I honestly do want to hear.
They... don't ? I don't know where the person is studying, but it's not a general phenomenon. I have still students around me, and the number of years don't seem to make them more or less bitters.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
But nobody pursues a philosophy degree for the money. It's a question of personal values and what one wants out of life. Many people of a philosophical predilection would find it unfulfilling, a waste, "insane", to devote themselves to wealth maximization.
>It's a question of personal values and what one wants out of life. Many people of a philosophical predilection would find it unfulfilling, a waste, "insane", to devote themselves to wealth maximization. Arguably, If your goal in life is to be happy, from a philosophical perspective, maximizing wealth is a valid way to do it.
> When I entered grad school, I noticed that the older grad students just seemed... oddly bitter? The 6th years were living in a different world from us 1st years > You may need to move on for the sake of your life, but your experiments aren't working and the committee says you need one more paper to graduate. It's really hard to balance this, especially combined with the lack of money. > Only 15% of postdocs end up…
“Society” isn’t tolerating it, it’s the grad students that are tolerating it. Society doesn’t know and wouldn’t care if they did.
Your general point is spot on. Why put yourself through that?