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Why do older grad students become bitter?

musings.lambdaloop.com

51–60 of 114 posts

Re: Why do older grad students become bitter?

#51
overwork, bad salaries, competition, bad relationship with supervisors are often mentioned but I think this is not the whole picture.

I would focus more on research itself. Research can be really shitty. It's extremely open ended, so you may be a brilliant student with exams, but feel clueless about what to do when there is no clear problem and no clear solution.

Science is now extremely incremental compared to 50 years ago, meaning that you work on a tiny problem and you only try to take it forward by epsilon. This is different from the idea we often have of science as "eureka!" and revolutionary changes of paradigm. Most of our time we only aim to publish some paper on something, and move on, even without fully believing in what we're trying hard to convince reviewers of. Which is a horrible feeling.

All this causes one clear phenomenon: lack of motivation. Motivation is essential for any hard job. But it's very very hard to keep motivation high, let's be honest, on working like crazy on some project that ends up in a paper that probably almost nobody will ever read.

I don't ever want to do that again. And it's not about the salary, or my boss, or working long hours (I don't).

Re: Why do older grad students become bitter?

#52
For what it's worth, you don't have to do a PhD where you making starvation wages. There are plenty of well paying PhD programs in Scandinavian countries, The Netherlands, etc. During my PhD in Norway I made approx. 55k USD before taxes. This paid for a flat by myself, traveling on holidays to my home country, etc.

Re: Why do older grad students become bitter?

#53
Another factor I’ve wondered in both myself and others: those who choose to be grad students often do so because of irrational unresolved issues or dissatisfactions with life. Grad work doesn’t help with these issues at all, only adds more problems or compounds them, and leaves you with a good amount of bitterness that you might not even understand.

Increased age or progress increases the chance that these unresolved issues are manifesting or compounding.

For me, I was looking for things in academia that just weren’t there, and I was too dumb to know what I was really looking for.

Re: Why do older grad students become bitter?

#54
post #19

As somebody from the UK, six years feels such a long time. Our PhDs are usually three years, although there's more specialisation earlier on at the undergraduate levels, and people might have done masters first, so you are launched straight into research pretty much when you start. You generally have four years from the start to submit your thesis and three years of funding, although I don't know if that has changed…

In the US, PhD programs will usually be combined with the Masters, and will start with ~2 years of coursework. This can cause no end of communication issues when discussing how far one is along a PhD.

Re: Why do older grad students become bitter?

#55
post #18

I think the psychological aspect of first failure and injustice is rough on grad students. Hypercompetitive to get into a good enough BS program to get into a MS program yet unlike post-BS tracks like med school, 98% aren't getting that job in academia and will fail out. Its a pyramid with a very pointy top, much like college football usually doesn't lead to a NFL career. Meanwhile the "failures" who were not smart e…

> now where's my reward I was promised?"

These people deserve more without question, but at the end of the day if this is their reaction they didn't look forward far enough.

It's a slightly less bad decision than people who decide to try to become professional athletes. You're subjecting yourself to getting treated like absolute shit for a half a chance at a mediocre job.

I do not understand why anyone would ever choose to be an acedemic, at least one at any institution that has this sort of crazy imbalances of applicants and positions, because whenever that happens you don't get in on skill, you almost always get in based on some form of nepotism or politics, and that culture slowly destroys all organizations it's involved with.

Re: Why do older grad students become bitter?

#56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know it never seems like the right time to do anything else than moving forward, but please seek help.

I am on the waiting list for therapy for a year. They told me it would be a year. I rang a couple weeks ago and they told me it would be another year. Help is not available. God knows I’ve tried EDIT: Why downvote? What am I supposed to do?...I'm so tired

Upvoted you to counter the down votes, if it does indeed work that way. Please connect with the guy who has offered to met you.

To the mods: Agreed that making a system that satisfies everybody is difficult, but one cannot in good conscience have a system where a mob might have it's way.

Re: Why do older grad students become bitter?

#57
post #49
post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You can do a BS and work in the industry. There's no philosophy industry.

Which is one of the reasons sane people suggest not getting a philosophy degree.

One studies because of curiosity, not because of money.

Re: Why do older grad students become bitter?

#58
post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can do a BS and work in the industry. Nobody forces you to get a job in the academia.

> You can do a BS and work in the industry. There's no philosophy industry.

>There's no philosophy industry.

You can work in the diversity industry. As a chief diversity officer, for example.

Re: Why do older grad students become bitter?

#59
post #49
post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You can do a BS and work in the industry. There's no philosophy industry.

Which is one of the reasons sane people suggest not getting a philosophy degree.

But nobody pursues a philosophy degree for the money.

It's a question of personal values and what one wants out of life. Many people of a philosophical predilection would find it unfulfilling, a waste, "insane", to devote themselves to wealth maximization.

Re: Why do older grad students become bitter?

#60

1. If you put a sixth grader in second grade, they wont be happy because they are doing a lot less than they should and could be doing. I think this feeling applies for sixth year students, that know they could be starting a real job or building a family. 2. Academia is built on the the theoretical. Learning is cool, and theories are nice, and colleges are full of kids that don't bear the responsibility of their acti…

Good observations....
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