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What happens when your phone is spying on you

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Re: What happens when your phone is spying on you

#151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think part of the issue is that it is too affordable. The whole free content, free email, free infrastructure got us into current mess to begin with and since advertising was the only place that paid, now it is a part of the landscape. But on that front, pendulum may be swinging the other way. And privacy itself is one of those terms that can easily led into a very broad discussion unless it is not clearly defined…

Well, I sure don't ever want to losing half my day to forgetting things, being constantly lost, and losing my keys and wallet constantly. As far as effects on me, getting rid of modern tech would already be getting close to the authoritarian nightmare they talk about, far more than basically any of the laws other people complain about. If the effects are harmful enough to regulate, it's the same kind of conversation…

You do have a point especially if I examine my thoughts on cigarettes, alcohol and so on to determine what makes spy tech more of a target in my life. I think the difference is that even without regulations and restrictions, I can escape both cigarettes, gas engines and so on if I so choose.

With spy tech, even if I take just about every step there is to take, even full blown luddism does not get me the world that was. These days, being a private person takes real money ( vide FB Zuckerberg buying property to ensure privacy on his real estate ).

You do have a point nonetheless, which brings me to this: what is an acceptable restriction on it to you?

Re: What happens when your phone is spying on you

#152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The ability to revoke consent is an essential part of consent, in my view. > some privacy advocates seem to think that's still not enough. I am one of them. I think the GDPR is inadequate in many ways, but it's certainly a huge improvement over the nothing that existed prior, and it's much better than anything we have here in the US. But the things I think are inadequate about the GDPR still revolve around consent. I…

I guess it depends on how you view personal data. To me, it's just like any other data, licensing it to someone is no different than licensing the source code to something you wrote, if it's revokable the whole concept doesn't make sense, and you don't really own it so much as it's held in trust by the state. But it seems like some people see it as something really personal and special that inherently shouldn't be tr…

> To me, it's just like any other data, licensing it to someone is no different than licensing the source code to something you wrote, if it's revokable the whole concept doesn't make sense, and you don't really own it so much as it's held in trust by the state.

We live in a world where “buy this movie” on a streaming site gives you no kind of ownership, merely a temporary license to rent the data until the company decides they don’t want you to have it any more - treating personal data the same way doesn’t seem bad by comparison...

Re: What happens when your phone is spying on you

#153
post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple has “Advanced Data Protection” that you can enable This was built after the NSO group hacks to lock down the device to be resilient to nation state attacks. It limits some of the attack vectors you’re taking about (with a tradeoff of also limiting some features). Apple also enabled true e2ee in the cloud where only you retain the keys.

> Apple also enabled true e2ee in the cloud where only you retain the keys. Is there a procedure to realistically verify that your communications are e2e and not e2mitm2e ?

All of it is a bit silly to trust companies with things like this when there are standard techniques which have stood the test of time and are *far* simpler - tar.zst.gpg or squash.gpg, luks-encrypted qemu images, etc. Things done locally are just inherently better, because it's far simpler tech, and you actually know what's happening rather than just blindly trusting some sketchy company.

Re: What happens when your phone is spying on you

#154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nothing. Anyone recommending antivirus apps for your android is clueless and/or after your money.

Okay, I'm clueless. Can you condescend to explain why this is the case, and/or provide something informative to read about the subjective? BTW I really am clueless, because I've avoided owning any kind of smartphone until now.

A non answer / misdirection here may be to not go for tacking on malware detection to an already malware prone / hostile operating system, and rather start in a better position by using something like grapheneos. Having more control over what happens on the system is important to get malware in the first place. I imagine even more secure OSes will be coming out soon based on Rust, etc but the last time I checked GrapheneOS was a decent choice.

Re: What happens when your phone is spying on you

#155

I would actually like to install a tracking/remote-control app on my own phone in case it gets stolen, but can't seem to find any app that satisfies my requirements. I need it to be open source, not require Google Play Services and not connect to a hardcoded service, but allow me to phone home to an IP address/URL that I specify myself. Basically, an SSH server configured with reverse tunneling, that instead of just…

With a rooted Android phone you can run an SSH server using tools available on F-Droid (like SimpleSSHD).

Re: What happens when your phone is spying on you

#156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The ability to revoke consent is an essential part of consent, in my view. > some privacy advocates seem to think that's still not enough. I am one of them. I think the GDPR is inadequate in many ways, but it's certainly a huge improvement over the nothing that existed prior, and it's much better than anything we have here in the US. But the things I think are inadequate about the GDPR still revolve around consent. I…

I guess it depends on how you view personal data. To me, it's just like any other data, licensing it to someone is no different than licensing the source code to something you wrote, if it's revokable the whole concept doesn't make sense, and you don't really own it so much as it's held in trust by the state. But it seems like some people see it as something really personal and special that inherently shouldn't be tr…

> To me, it's just like any other data, licensing it to someone is no different than licensing the source code to something you wrote

I agree with this. It's your data, you're free to license it out in any way you choose.

> if it's revokable the whole concept doesn't make sense, and you don't really own it so much as it's held in trust by the state.

I don't understand this. How does your ability to revoke a license you've issued mean that it's held in trust by the state? Revocability underscores that you own the data and can control what happens to it in the future.

By the way, almost all licenses are revocable.

> But it seems like some people see it as something really personal and special that inherently shouldn't be treated like any other commercial asset,

And those people aren't wrong. They're exerting their rightful control over their data as they see fit. If I choose to license my data out, I am also exerting my rightful control over my data as I see fit. There is no contradiction here -- in both cases, it's about consent.

Re: What happens when your phone is spying on you

#157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh here, let me run it down real quick. You don't even need to be an expert. Tracking cookies, browser fingerprinting, and ISP-level monitoring logs everything you do. Various consumer database warehouses hoover up the data for resale/targetting by ad companies Hint: once a business has it, at a minimum the FBI/CIA/Government has it. Likely, they've been hacked by China and Russia too. In addition, the CIA/FBI run IS…

Exactly three years ago I would have laughed at you, but three years of COVID has taught me that the powers that be in our society — which include journalists, academics and moderators of online forums — will happily help tear down essential liberties for perceived, small, and temporary safeties. The abuses stemming from a lack of privacy have not been realized because of political convictions, but because of technic…

It is interesting how this is something people only "wake up" to now on a generational basis. Obviously the government wants this to happen, each generations' specific communication modes are presented as "safe" but in reality each generations' social network apps du jour is a new opportunity for even better "total information awareness".

This has been apparent since "Carnivore" was revealed to not be a conspiracy theory, but an actual system in THE LATE NINETIES, and ECHELON since the 1960s. And since then I would roughly say computing power is 20-40x more powerful (5x the gigahertz, 8x the cores), and storage is probably 1000x more scalable (40GB/280$ vs 14TB/200$).

I have no idea how old you are, but three years ago, heck that is well past the point you should have been aware of this. Look:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Room_641A

That was revealed in 2006. Basically, the crux of it was that there were "secret rooms" like that in EVERY SINGLE telco. Well, except apparently Qwest, which blew my mind at the time because they were the worst regional telco of them all, so the fact they stood their ground was a total anomaly in their usual monopoly extraction sociopathy.

One big sign of this is Tiktok. Tiktok is an attempt by the Chinese to subvert the normal monopoly the FBI has with social networks, since the US/EU governments are working with US/EU companies for facebook, twitter, etc. But Tiktok is Chinese.

So Tiktok looks like just another social network to a typical social network junkie, but then you read all these headlines where congress and the EU wants to ban it, seemingly strangely up in arms over just another video social network, and .... that's because the Chinese are doing what the US/EU have done for 25+years. The US government has ITS toys, and doesn't want the Chinese to take them.

That should clue you in to how much the government likes have total information access to social networks that are US/EU based.

A lot of this could be swallowed if the US exhibited healthy signs of a functioning democracy, instead it is another sign of an emerging postmodern totalitarian state. The last hope of this was our judicial branch, which has been so thoroughly compromised by 30 years of partisan nominations (read: pro-elite in all cases) and Iraq war case law that it will never go back.

I would stay quiet, but by the time I realized what was going on I had 10+ years of data on me. It doesn't matter anymore.

Re: What happens when your phone is spying on you

#159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, I sure don't ever want to losing half my day to forgetting things, being constantly lost, and losing my keys and wallet constantly. As far as effects on me, getting rid of modern tech would already be getting close to the authoritarian nightmare they talk about, far more than basically any of the laws other people complain about. If the effects are harmful enough to regulate, it's the same kind of conversation…

You do have a point especially if I examine my thoughts on cigarettes, alcohol and so on to determine what makes spy tech more of a target in my life. I think the difference is that even without regulations and restrictions, I can escape both cigarettes, gas engines and so on if I so choose. With spy tech, even if I take just about every step there is to take, even full blown luddism does not get me the world that wa…

I'm not actually sure what the "maximum viable policy" would be for me. While privacy is a right, so is free speech and observation. Even something like "You can't spy whatsoever without consent" goes too far, because CCTV cameras are important, and legalizing secret recordings could deter many kinds of abuse.

One thing that definitely seems uncontroversial is protection for spaces that have an expectation of privacy. Obviously no democratic state has any business allowing AirBNB bathroom cameras, since basically nobody aside from criminals wants that to exist, and by extension any space that specifically claims to be private should have the same protection.

Requiring a "Facebook moderators may access these chat logs under some conditions" notice at the beginning of everything someone might otherwise think was private seems reasonable.

What I have more of an issue with is defining new spaces with that expectation.

The government should probably have stricter rules than everyone else on privacy, since they are the main group who both can and possibly might want to actually make use of data to harm an average person.

Digital search warrants and subpoenas have solved real problems, so I wouldn't want to get rid of those entirely, but there could be a central logging facility where you can get access to any data they have on you, get notified instantly (Or within a time limit that expires if you are arrested, if there's a need to temporarily seal it to prevent tipping off a murderer) of any new accesses, and appeal the decision that allowed them to access it, so they can't just rubber stamp give it to everyone without any transparency.

Encryption should be permanently made a right, along with anonymity networks like Tor, and Cryptocurrency in general(Although maybe not proof of work, and I sure wouldn't want to become an everyday thing we all have to deal with).

The big problem with spying is that it's just observing people and telling others what you saw, you can't fully eliminate spying without eliminating an important part of free speech.

In general, the GDPR seems to get things mostly right, but I still think the best solution is actually having private alternatives people actually would use by choice, and making sure those are legally protected.

Re: What happens when your phone is spying on you

#160
post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Okay, I'm clueless. Can you condescend to explain why this is the case, and/or provide something informative to read about the subjective? BTW I really am clueless, because I've avoided owning any kind of smartphone until now.

A non answer / misdirection here may be to not go for tacking on malware detection to an already malware prone / hostile operating system, and rather start in a better position by using something like grapheneos. Having more control over what happens on the system is important to get malware in the first place. I imagine even more secure OSes will be coming out soon based on Rust, etc but the last time I checked Grap…

I am now educated. Thank you.
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