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Docker is deleting Open Source organisations - what you need to know

blog.alexellis.io

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Re: Docker is deleting Open Source organisations - what you need to know

#391

Post by sitkack »

mfer wrote: post #180
maccard wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a self inflicted problem by docker hub squatting the root namespace, though.

Getting out of a self inflicted problem isn't so easy. They have spent a long time trying. For example, putting distribution in the CNCF, working with the OCI on specs (like the distribution spec), making it possible to use other registries while not breaking the workflows for existing folks, and even some cases of working with other registries (e.g., their MCR integration with Docker Hub that offloads some egress an…

> I feel for the rough spot they are in.

I don't. Because there is this pattern from VCs to fund business models that involve dumping millions in resources as Open Source on the world and then owning a part of the ecosystem.

Docker originally wanted to "own" everything, if CoreOS hadn't pushed for the OCI spec, debalkanizing containers, Docker would have a near monopoly on the container ecosystem.

At this point Docker is just the command, and it is a tire fire of HCI gaffs.

Re: Docker is deleting Open Source organisations - what you need to know

#392

Post by jacobr1 »

richardwhiuk wrote: post #329
petesergeant wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> escrowing Are you sure this is what you mean? Escrow is a type of contactual arrangement, one type of which is agreeing with a commercial partner that you get a copy of their source-code if they go broke. I feel like you mean vendoring.

[flagged]

Things become a word when there is a critical mass of people that use the word. In this case vending initially refereed to placing a copy of the source code of the third party library into /vendor/ subdirectory, thus "vendoring" it. It has since been extended to similar use cases and has become part of the software developer jargon.

Re: Docker is deleting Open Source organisations - what you need to know

#393

Post by citizenpaul »

voytec wrote: post #128
londons_explore wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Docker should have been a neat tool made by one enthusiast, just like curl is. Instead it has a multi-million dollar company behind it, and VC's who demand profits from a thing that shouldn't have ever had a business plan.

> Docker should have been a neat tool made by one enthusiast, just like curl is. I have nothing but mad respect for Daniel Stenberg. 25 years of development of great software, for which he had been threatened[1] and had ridiculous US travel visa obtaining issues[2]. [1] https://daniel.haxx.se/blog/2021/02/19/i-will-slaughter-you/ [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26192025 [2] https://daniel.haxx.se/blog/2020/1…

There are lots of high functioning but harmless crazy people out there . I used to work for a government job and I found one of the most common tells was exactly what this "slaughter" person did. They love to list dozens of agencies to you for no reason. They have no authority so they hope they can borrow it from your fear of a random place. I cannot tell you how many emails/calls I have had left that fit this pattern, dozens at least.

>I have talked to now: FBI FBI Regional, VA, VA OIG, FCC, SEC, NSA, DOH, GSA, DOI, CIA, CFPB, HUD, MS, Convercent

Bonus Tell: They also love to say they are a doctor or PHD of something or often say PHD in multiple subjects.

Re: Docker is deleting Open Source organisations - what you need to know

#394

Post by judge2020 »

pmlnr wrote: post #384

> if we don't pay up, systems will break for many free users. Yep. These things happen, which is why hosting a copy on your own gitea, website, etc is so important. > Start publishing images to GitHub Why, to have this repeated in a few years time?

> Yep. These things happen, which is why hosting a copy on your own gitea, website, etc is so important.

...which involves an ongoing cost anyways. Docker is tired of free hosting to everyone (unless they're a vetted Open Source project), so you're going to see projects either move to the next free solution or solicit donations/more donations specifically to support hosting an open access registry.

Re: Docker is deleting Open Source organisations - what you need to know

#395

Post by legohead »

TimWolla wrote: post #240
dbingham wrote: post #230

As an SRE Manager, this is causing me a hell of a headache this morning. In 30 days a bunch of images we depend on may just disappear. We mostly depend on images from relatively large organizations (`alpine`, `node`, `golang`, etc), so one would want to believe that we'll be fine - they're all either in the open source program or will pay. But I can't hang my hat on that. If those images disappear, we lose the abilit…

The images you mention (alpine, node, golang) are all so-called “Docker Official Images”. Those are all the ones without a slash as the namespace separator in them: https://hub.docker.com/search?q=&type=image&image_filter=off... They are versioned and reviewed here: https://github.com/docker-library/official-images I don't expect them to go away. Disclosure: I maintain two of them (spiped, adminer).

"don't expect" or "for certain"? Can't really plan ahead without some kind of certainty.

Re: Docker is deleting Open Source organisations - what you need to know

#396

Post by Riverheart »

nerdjon wrote: post #205

I am missing something and I can't find a concrete explanation anywhere. What exactly does this mean as someone who pulls images but doesn't push to docker hub? Within a month or so are we going to start getting failures trying to pull images or docker hub no longer being updated and needing to start pulling from somewhere else?

It means the images you depend on may cease to exist failing your builds and at worst they'll be replaced by bad actors registering the free namespace so automated CI builds and unsuspecting users can pull their containers instead.

So depending on whether these open-source orgs pay up will determine whether you continue using Docker Hub or whatever registry they migrate to.

Re: Docker is deleting Open Source organisations - what you need to know

#397

Post by Szpadel »

user3939382 wrote: post #198
FlyingSnake wrote: post #31

> Start publishing images to GitHub And when GitHub starts similar shenanigans, move out to where? I am old enough to know the we can't trust BigTech and their unpredictable behaviors. Eventually we need to start a Codeberg like alternative using Prototype funds to be self reliant. 1: https://codeberg.org/ 2: https://prototypefund.de/

It should use DHT/BitTorrent. Organizations could share magnet links to the official images. OS projects have been doing it for years with ISOs.

I think something like IPFS would be perfect for that, you have some layers pulled in your storage anyways.

big projects could self host easily, as their popularity would quickly give them enough seeds to not need to provide much traffic themselves.

also I think adapting docker way of storing layers as tars is fundamentally broken, maybe with combination with something like ostree as a storage to decrease duplicates we could really cut a lot of storage.

imagine how much unique content does your average docker image have? 1 binary and maybe few text files? rest is probably os and deps anyways.

Re: Docker is deleting Open Source organisations - what you need to know

#398

Post by broast »

ohgodplsno wrote: post #373
broast wrote: post #337

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if you already have important planned and unplanned urgent work occupying all your SRE'S for the month? On a team or org that's already running thin? Surely you've been there.

I have. And it was also my job to say to management "hey, there's a very preoccupying fire right there, and it will delay this less important thing. If you're unhappy about it, send me an email explicitly telling me drop the very preoccupying fire." "Everybody has a plan until you get punched in the mouth" also applies to tech.

I think this thread was started by the manager that has to hear that push back, hence the headaches.

Re: Docker is deleting Open Source organisations - what you need to know

#399

Post by ZunarJ5 »

marvinblum wrote: post #379
ZunarJ5 wrote: post #365

1. I just started teaching myself Docker for my home server. How will this affect me? 2. What is a good alternative to Docker? Thanks!

1. You probably won't be able to pull some of the images any longer and need to find an alternative host (ghcr.io instead of hub.docker.io for example) 2. Podman

Thank you!

Re: Docker is deleting Open Source organisations - what you need to know

#400

Post by elbigbad »

voytec wrote: post #186
elbigbad wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I read the travel issues post you linked, but am not seeing the causal link you’re drawing between development of software and visa issues. Was there more to the story?

I may have remembered incorrectly, which post was it. Here[1], in the paragraph titled "Why they deny me?" (unlinkable), Daniel hints at the possibility that this may have been due to development of (lib)curl which is used for malware creation by 3rd parties. There was no proof though. [1] https://daniel.haxx.se/blog/2018/07/28/administrative-purgat...

Ah, that makes sense. I have no dog in the fight and am far from the emotion of having a visa delayed in this circumstance. I would say that it was much more likely to be some level of incompetence than malice, having dealt with large government bureaucracies myself.
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