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Docker is deleting Open Source organisations - what you need to know

blog.alexellis.io

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Re: Docker is deleting Open Source organisations - what you need to know

#311

Post by mmcdermott »

windexh8er wrote: post #101
pydry wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think they potentially could have made a decent business out of it but they made a lot of bad business decisions. I find myself shaking my head at a lot of their technical decisions too. Podman seems to me to be a case study for how to do this right.

Podman is interesting. I like the architecture problems it solves with respect to Docker but the way they went about it was typical big business Red Hat. Dan Walsh, Podman's BDFL it seems, basically stood in front of RHEL / OpenShift customers for years bashing Docker even when a majority of the things he was claiming were less than half baked. RHEL made sly moves like not supporting the Docker runtime, even at a tim…

I first found Podman when looking for alternatives when Docker broke on my laptop in the midst of all the Docker Desktop licensing changes. Frankly, I use it because it has been more stable lately, not because of any long run marketing campaign from Red Hat. I suspect a lot of its userbase will be in a similar place as the experience with Docker continues to degrade.

Re: Docker is deleting Open Source organisations - what you need to know

#312

Post by londons_explore »

kajaktum wrote: post #276
londons_explore wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Docker should have been a neat tool made by one enthusiast, just like curl is. Instead it has a multi-million dollar company behind it, and VC's who demand profits from a thing that shouldn't have ever had a business plan.

> Instead it has a multi-million dollar company behind it, and VC's who demand profits from a thing that shouldn't have ever had a business plan. But you don't have to host curl? Who's gonna put the money to host all the images and bandwidths that ten of thousands of companies use but never pay?

It could have been designed with a self-host option or a torrent/ipfs backend for near-zero hosting costs and still be 'just works' for the user.

Re: Docker is deleting Open Source organisations - what you need to know

#313

Post by tyingq »

mardifoufs wrote: post #295
tyingq wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm assuming creative calculations. Like Uber's idea of "earnings" changed when they went public.

Based on what? How is that more likely than just them being able to finally generate revenue, considering they started focusing on that a few years ago? I don't get your comment at all

Based on observation of other companies. Fluffing your earnings isn't rare for private companies looking for investors.

Re: Docker is deleting Open Source organisations - what you need to know

#314

Post by rendaw »

jon-wood wrote: post #13

Docker the tool has been a massive benefit to software development, every now and then I have a moan about the hassle of getting something bootstrapped to run on Docker, but it's still worlds better than the old ways of managing dependencies and making sure everyone on a project is aligned on what versions of things are installed. Unfortunately Docker the company appears to be dying, this is the latest in a long line…

Why didn't Docker ever offer managed container hosting? That seems like the obvious logical next step when you create a tool for easy deploys. Instead it's 2023 and we finally get that with Fly.io.

I must be missing something obvious, because otherwise I feel like I'm going insane.

Re: Docker is deleting Open Source organisations - what you need to know

#315

Post by codexb »

londons_explore wrote: post #36
jon-wood wrote: post #13

Docker the tool has been a massive benefit to software development, every now and then I have a moan about the hassle of getting something bootstrapped to run on Docker, but it's still worlds better than the old ways of managing dependencies and making sure everyone on a project is aligned on what versions of things are installed. Unfortunately Docker the company appears to be dying, this is the latest in a long line…

Docker should have been a neat tool made by one enthusiast, just like curl is. Instead it has a multi-million dollar company behind it, and VC's who demand profits from a thing that shouldn't have ever had a business plan.

Yeah, but curl is used to access and download all sorts of data, which are all hosted by multi-million dollar companies. Just like git downloads and uploads data to git repositories. curl and git are valuable, but so is GitHub, and websites in general. The problem is that they haven't found a way to monetize docker hub.

Re: Docker is deleting Open Source organisations - what you need to know

#316

Post by pantalaimon »

ohgodplsno wrote: post #252
bushbaba wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s unplanned work. There’s other work needing to be done as well.

And a sudden fire is also unplanned work, but that's still your work. If this is such a threat, then maybe shift priorities around.

If someone were to set my server room on fire, I'd be equally annoyed about them.

Re: Docker is deleting Open Source organisations - what you need to know

#317

Post by ZiiS »

nine_k wrote: post #254
richardwhiuk wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You should be escrowing any Docker images you depend on, I'd have thought.

Good thing is that setting up an image registry in AWS is so simple! (Ha-ha, only serious.)

Is https://aws.amazon.com/ecr/ no good?

Re: Docker is deleting Open Source organisations - what you need to know

#318

Post by indymike »

jacooper wrote: post #232
5e92cb50239222b wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're right, it's both easier and simpler since no daemons are involved. podman-compose has the same command-line interface and has worked ok for me so far (maybe 3 or 4 years at this point).

Podman-compose isn't fully compatible with the new compose spec. Also I really don't care if docker has a daemon or not, for me it offers feature like auto starting containers without bothering with SystemD, and auto updates using watchtower and the docker socket. And since podman doesn't have an official distro package repo like docker, you are stuck use whatever old version shipped in your distro without recent imp…

> And since podman doesn't have an official repo like docker,

Hmm... https://github.com/containers/podman

I found that on: https://podman.io/ so, I'm pretty sure it's official.

Re: Docker is deleting Open Source organisations - what you need to know

#319

Post by krmboya »

londons_explore wrote: post #36
jon-wood wrote: post #13

Docker the tool has been a massive benefit to software development, every now and then I have a moan about the hassle of getting something bootstrapped to run on Docker, but it's still worlds better than the old ways of managing dependencies and making sure everyone on a project is aligned on what versions of things are installed. Unfortunately Docker the company appears to be dying, this is the latest in a long line…

Docker should have been a neat tool made by one enthusiast, just like curl is. Instead it has a multi-million dollar company behind it, and VC's who demand profits from a thing that shouldn't have ever had a business plan.

The VCs offered free bandwidth and storage to gain market share.

Bandwidth and storage is not ultimately not free, it has to be paid for.

Re: Docker is deleting Open Source organisations - what you need to know

#320

Post by hoherd »

ohgodplsno wrote: post #233
dbingham wrote: post #230

As an SRE Manager, this is causing me a hell of a headache this morning. In 30 days a bunch of images we depend on may just disappear. We mostly depend on images from relatively large organizations (`alpine`, `node`, `golang`, etc), so one would want to believe that we'll be fine - they're all either in the open source program or will pay. But I can't hang my hat on that. If those images disappear, we lose the abilit…

Or you could, you know, host a Docker registry and reupload those images to something you control. Worst case scenario, in 30 days, nothing is gone from Docker and you can just spin it down. Your job as an SRE is not to look at things and go "oh well, nothing we can do lol".

Imagine you shipped software that included references to docker hub images. That software will no longer work if any of the referenced images are deleted from docker hub. This will be the case with any helm charts that reference images that are deleted from docker hub.

Some of those charts will not have variables that let you override the docker images and tags, so some of those will not be usable without creating a new release.

This is one of the primary reasons to vendor your third party docker images into a docker registry that you control.

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