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Docker is deleting Open Source organisations - what you need to know

blog.alexellis.io

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Re: Docker is deleting Open Source organisations - what you need to know

#91

Post by delfinom »

FlyingSnake wrote: post #31

> Start publishing images to GitHub And when GitHub starts similar shenanigans, move out to where? I am old enough to know the we can't trust BigTech and their unpredictable behaviors. Eventually we need to start a Codeberg like alternative using Prototype funds to be self reliant. 1: https://codeberg.org/ 2: https://prototypefund.de/

Yea, people are really spoiled due to more than a decade of VC and general investing cashburn offering tons of services for free. But at the end of the day there are costs and companies will want to recoup their money.

The problem with just replacing GitHub isn't the source code hosting part. There's tons of alternatives both commercial and open source. The problem is the cost of CI infrastructure and CDN/content/release hosting.

Even moderating said CI infrastructure is a nightmare. freedesktop.org which uses a self-hosted gitlab instance recently had to shutdown CI for everything but official projects because the crypto mining bots attacked over the last few days hard and fast.

Re: Docker is deleting Open Source organisations - what you need to know

#92

Post by RobotToaster »

JonChesterfield wrote: post #40
FlyingSnake wrote: post #31

> Start publishing images to GitHub And when GitHub starts similar shenanigans, move out to where? I am old enough to know the we can't trust BigTech and their unpredictable behaviors. Eventually we need to start a Codeberg like alternative using Prototype funds to be self reliant. 1: https://codeberg.org/ 2: https://prototypefund.de/

We need to use a distributed system instead of a centralised one. Probably built on a source control system that can handle that.

This seems like a perfect use case for IPFS.

Re: Docker is deleting Open Source organisations - what you need to know

#94

Post by robertlagrant »

raesene9 wrote: post #73
spicyusername wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ideally a coop of some variety This is the role I feel like podman, the tool developed by Red Hat, is filling.

This is more about Docker hub than Docker. Image hosting is expensive at scale, and someone's got to pay for the compute/storage/network...

I agree. The core devs should create a new company and focus just on the tools, with a simple, scaling licence model for them.

As far as DockerHub goes, the OSS hosting costs do need to be solved, but surely they can be.

Re: Docker is deleting Open Source organisations - what you need to know

#95

Post by osigurdson »

Sebb767 wrote: post #59
JonChesterfield wrote: post #52

My first thought on this was good riddance. The dev model of "we've lost track of our dependencies so ship Ubuntu and a load of state" never sat well. However it looks like the main effect is going to be moving more of open source onto GitHub, aka under Microsoft's control, and the level of faith people have in Microsoft not destroying their competitor for profit is surreal.

> The dev model of "we've lost track of our dependencies so ship Ubuntu and a load of state" never sat well. Docker, the company, is failing. Docker, as in containerization technology, is alive and very well. (edited for clarity)

>> Docker, the company, is failing. Docker, the container technology, is alive and very well.

Is it though? Podman is more well liked (no daemon / non-root) and Kubernetes doesn't have direct support for it any more. I don't think it matters much that k8s uses CRI-O but docker needs to be #1 for running a container on a single machine. Yet, they seem to be letting that slip away because it is not directly monetizable. Software businesses need to be creative - invest a lot into free things, which support monetization of others. If you want low risk returns, buy T-bills.

Re: Docker is deleting Open Source organisations - what you need to know

#96

Post by throwawaymanbot »

jon-wood wrote: post #13

Docker the tool has been a massive benefit to software development, every now and then I have a moan about the hassle of getting something bootstrapped to run on Docker, but it's still worlds better than the old ways of managing dependencies and making sure everyone on a project is aligned on what versions of things are installed. Unfortunately Docker the company appears to be dying, this is the latest in a long line…

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Re: Docker is deleting Open Source organisations - what you need to know

#97

Post by ridruejo »

Without entering into the specifics of this situation, I don’t understand the hate for Docker the company. They are providing a huge service for the community and looking for ways to make money from it to make it sustainable. I would give them a bit more empathy/benefit of the doubt as they iterate on their approach. Somewhere, somehow, someone has to pay for that storage and bandwidth whether directly or indirectly (I am old enough to remember what happened with sourceforge so I rather them find a model that works for everyone)

Re: Docker is deleting Open Source organisations - what you need to know

#98

Post by Havoc »

To me this smells of VC model issues.

Initially it's great if you can get all the FOSS to play in your technology walled garden. Subsidize it with VC cash.

Downside is it generates a ton of traffic that is hard to monetize. Sooner or later it reaches a point where it can't be subsidized and then you get pay up or get out decisions like this.

One question I haven't seen yet is 420 USD? Is that what it costs to serve the average FOSS project? Or is that number a bad Elon style joke? If they came out with "We've calculated X as actual costs. We're making no margin on this but can't free lunch this anymore" that would go down a lot better I think.

Re: Docker is deleting Open Source organisations - what you need to know

#99

Post by throwawaymanbot »

aviramha wrote: post #66
pydry wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think they potentially could have made a decent business out of it but they made a lot of bad business decisions. I find myself shaking my head at a lot of their technical decisions too. Podman seems to me to be a case study for how to do this right.

I am usually an early adopter but I keep coming back to Docker since Podman is still very rough around the edges, especially in terms of "non-direct" usage (aka other tools)

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Re: Docker is deleting Open Source organisations - what you need to know

#100

Post by 5e92cb50239222b »

jacooper wrote: post #62
spicyusername wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ideally a coop of some variety This is the role I feel like podman, the tool developed by Red Hat, is filling.

Its not as easy nor as simple as docker + docker compose.

You're right, it's both easier and simpler since no daemons are involved. podman-compose has the same command-line interface and has worked ok for me so far (maybe 3 or 4 years at this point).
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