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Docker is deleting Open Source organisations - what you need to know

blog.alexellis.io

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Re: Docker is deleting Open Source organisations - what you need to know

#201

Post by foepys »

I posted this in the other thread already but will also add it here. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35167136

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In an ideal world every project had its own registry. Those centralized registries/package managers that are baked into tools are one of the reasons why hijacking namespaces (and typos of them) is even possible and so bad.

Externalizing hosting costs to other parties is very attractive but if you are truly open source you can tell everybody to build the packages themselves from source and provide a script (or in this case a large Dockerfile) for that. No hosting of binary images necessary for small projects.

Especially since a lot of open source projects are not used by other OSS but by large organizations I don't see the need to burden others with the costs for these businesses. Spinning this into "Docker hates Open Source" is absolutely missing the point.

Linux distributions figured out decades ago that universities are willing to help out with decentralized distribution of their binaries. Why shouldn't this work for other essential OSS as well?

Re: Docker is deleting Open Source organisations - what you need to know

#202

Post by msla »

jon-wood wrote: post #13

Docker the tool has been a massive benefit to software development, every now and then I have a moan about the hassle of getting something bootstrapped to run on Docker, but it's still worlds better than the old ways of managing dependencies and making sure everyone on a project is aligned on what versions of things are installed. Unfortunately Docker the company appears to be dying, this is the latest in a long line…

> My hope is that before the inevitable shuttering of Docker Inc another organisations (ideally a coop of some variety, but that's probably wishful thinking)

Indeed. We should all be equal in that venture: Ain't nobody here but us chickens.

Re: Docker is deleting Open Source organisations - what you need to know

#203

Post by tyingq »

timcobb wrote: post #200
tyingq wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course, I can do a lot of record revenue and earnings selling five dollar bills for $4. I'm curious what a path to profit would look like...is this kind of squeeze the only way to get there?

You can’t have positive earnings like Docker if you sell 5 for 4

I'm assuming creative calculations. Like Uber's idea of "earnings" changed when they went public.

Re: Docker is deleting Open Source organisations - what you need to know

#204

Post by macintux »

Kwpolska wrote: post #185
macintux wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Serious question, though: how many services have they offered over the years that were free to anyone? Free to existing Windows users, perhaps, but free to the world doesn’t seem like something Microsoft was historically in a position to offer, much less later kill.

Hotmail/outlook.com and OneDrive are two services that Microsoft has been offering for decades, for free (with a storage limit, but that’s nothing weird), no Windows required.

Not sure why those didn’t occur to me, other than that I’ve never used them. Thanks.

Re: Docker is deleting Open Source organisations - what you need to know

#205

Post by nerdjon »

I am missing something and I can't find a concrete explanation anywhere.

What exactly does this mean as someone who pulls images but doesn't push to docker hub?

Within a month or so are we going to start getting failures trying to pull images or docker hub no longer being updated and needing to start pulling from somewhere else?

Re: Docker is deleting Open Source organisations - what you need to know

#206

Post by archseer »

jon-wood wrote: post #116
pmarreck wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> worlds better than the old ways of managing dependencies and making sure everyone on a project is aligned on what versions of things are installed. And Nix is worlds better than even this . Imagine!

I’m yet to be entirely sold on that, mostly because I think Nix the language isn’t anywhere near as accessible as Dockerfiles, but I’ll be the first one cheering if Nix does manage to take over.

https://www.mpscholten.de/docker/2016/01/27/you-are-most-lik...

Re: Docker is deleting Open Source organisations - what you need to know

#207

Post by t344344 »

voytec wrote: post #128
londons_explore wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Docker should have been a neat tool made by one enthusiast, just like curl is. Instead it has a multi-million dollar company behind it, and VC's who demand profits from a thing that shouldn't have ever had a business plan.

> Docker should have been a neat tool made by one enthusiast, just like curl is. I have nothing but mad respect for Daniel Stenberg. 25 years of development of great software, for which he had been threatened[1] and had ridiculous US travel visa obtaining issues[2]. [1] https://daniel.haxx.se/blog/2021/02/19/i-will-slaughter-you/ [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26192025 [2] https://daniel.haxx.se/blog/2020/1…

> ridiculous US travel visa obtaining issues

Ridiculous? This is pretty common issue for anyone who travels to US. Visa may be denied for whatever reason and tough luck on appeal. I am EU citizen and had similar experience just for visiting Iran on tourist trip. Do not even ask about guys from India, Pakistan or less fortunate countries.

And it got even worse with pandemic. US required vaccination for very long time, long long after it was relevant. Maybe they still do, frankly I do not care to look at this point!

I think biggest WTF here is why international organization like Mozilla is organizing company wide meetup in US, and not in country with liberal visa entry policy such as Mexico!

Re: Docker is deleting Open Source organisations - what you need to know

#208

Post by vladvasiliu »

Kye wrote: post #109
vladvasiliu wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who's been bitten by this, I'm not sure if it's an issue with podman itself as much as the tools which expect docker. It could be argued that podman is not a docker drop-in replacement, but I expect more and more tools to pick it up.

Is this a matter of developers constantly relearning the lesson of the folly of only supporting the current top thing, or is it a lot harder to support more than one?

I don't know how "hard" it is, but in my particular case I wanted to use this from intellij. It actually works, but the issue is that the docker emulation socket isn't where the ide expects it, and I haven't found a way to tell it where to look for.

Once I simlinked the socket, everything worked.

Re: Docker is deleting Open Source organisations - what you need to know

#209

Post by vorpalhex »

streetcat1 wrote: post #176
londons_explore wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Docker should have been a neat tool made by one enthusiast, just like curl is. Instead it has a multi-million dollar company behind it, and VC's who demand profits from a thing that shouldn't have ever had a business plan.

what do you mean "demand profit"? Last time I check rent is not free, food is not free, bus ticket is not free. No reason why software should be free. Open source was invented by big co as a "marginalized your complement" strategy, not the ideal that is marketed as. As an evidence, I do not see any cloud vendor open source their code?

> Open source was invented by big co as a "marginalized your complement" strategy, not the ideal that is marketed as.

> In 1983, Richard Stallman launched the GNU Project to write a complete operating system free from constraints on use of its source code. Particular incidents that motivated this include a case where an annoying printer couldn't be fixed because the source code was withheld from users.

from https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_free_and_open-sou...

> Last time I check rent is not free, food is not free, bus ticket is not free. No reason why software should be free.

You are welcome to sell your software. You are welcome to be replaced if you can't compete. You don't have to sell your software and we don't have to buy it. You can and will be competed with.

Trying to build a multimillion dollar venture off a UI - even a good UI - is probably unwise. It does not seem to be going well for Docker who has gone from no competitors to multiple and all of those competitors are open source.

Re: Docker is deleting Open Source organisations - what you need to know

#210

Post by evilduck »

laserlight wrote: post #121
vladvasiliu wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who's been bitten by this, I'm not sure if it's an issue with podman itself as much as the tools which expect docker. It could be argued that podman is not a docker drop-in replacement, but I expect more and more tools to pick it up.

> It could be argued that podman is not a docker drop-in replacement This is an unfortunate part IMHO. podman is not a docker drop-in replacement, but it is advertised as such.

Besides the advertising, it's very close to being a drop-in replacement but their pace isn't closing that gap quick enough (or maybe they don't want to, or it isn't possible, idk I'm just a user) so you get a false sense of confidence doing the simple stuff before you run into a parity problem.
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