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60 Days to Find a Job or Leave the Country

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Re: 60 Days to Find a Job or Leave the Country

#111

Post by the_mar »

linuxftw wrote: post #106
the_mar wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you claiming that an employee with decades of experience can be replaced with a new grad willy-nilly? That's a false equivalency. A lot of things you seem to believe are incredibly backwards. Please educate yourself, because you do come off as xenophobic. Good place to start: https://www.americanimmigrationcouncil.org/research/h1b-visa...

Looks like there's already a 6 year max that is obviously being abused. > Please educate yourself, because you do come off as xenophobic. I do not care about foreign workers, only domestic workers. I don't think immigration should be tied to employment for any reason. It has nothing to do with cultures, or races, or nationalities, it has to do with wages. There are too many poor people in the US that are not able to…

> Looks like there's already a 6 year max that is obviously being abused.

How is it being abused? E.g. it is perfectly legal to apply for a green card after your H1B and there are quotas for immigrants from each country. Alternatively, after living in a country for 5+ years someone may marry a US citizen. Should it be banned? Are we to impose a ban on dating anyone who is not a US national?

> I don't think immigration should be tied to employment for any reason.

So what should immigration be tied to then? What are other reasons for someone to be in the US for extended period of time.

> I do not care about foreign workers, only domestic workers.

Replace "workers" with "people" and here you have the reason why you are a bit xenophobic.

> There are too many poor people in the US that are not able to move up economically for a variety of reasons, one of which is a large influx of white collar labor.

There is literally no evidence to support the claim that white collar skilled immigrant workers do anything but create MORE job opportunities in the United States.

Re: 60 Days to Find a Job or Leave the Country

#112

Post by the_mar »

mantas wrote: post #108
the_mar wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right fuck those people who want to live outside of the place they were born in. /s

No, let people in other places live as they're used to and don't get overrun and outpriced of their home.

Your outrage is misplaced. I am an immigrant tech worker, I too can't afford shit in San Francisco. I do not think immigrants are the problem here

Re: 60 Days to Find a Job or Leave the Country

#113

Post by ravagat »

flashgordon wrote: post #104
ravagat wrote: post #100

While I understand this would be good publicity for the H1B visa and its notice/grace period. I think if people were more aware (open to see another perspective) that the biggest problem, especially for those who are Indian and Chinese (the top two H1B recipients), is the abuse of sub-contractor companies being set up and using these visa recipients which create the backlogs. Another thing, I've noticed everyone on a…

Wouldn't the actual solution be removing country caps (before bringing up diversity remember that country caps are on your country of birth, not naturalization so tell me how country of birth is not a skin color filter?) Or making this a point based scheme or making this region+comp based instead of a universal category all over? Also can the govt do anything to catch and filter the sub contractor companies or is it…

No, I think country caps help in filtering. If removed it would open a pandora's box like experience for anyone in the process and those processing the applicants. Systemizing immigration into a manageable process and system is a hard task. Too many layers. I think modifying the country caps right now would be of benefit rather than stricly removing them. Then a refresh of the filtering process, processing system overhaul, and other parts would need working. But I don't think country caps are of any priority tbh.

The government can do something to catch and filter the companies but I think they are partly playing a role in their existence and continued business. When you talk about great revenue sources, do you mean for the gov? If so, probably both directly and indirectly. Probably part diplomacy sprinkled in

Re: 60 Days to Find a Job or Leave the Country

#114

Post by suddenclarity »

the_mar wrote: post #80
suddenclarity wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is it a 20th century phenomenon? In the past we had barely no movement in comparison with today and at least here you actually had to apply for permission to move away. The whole welfare system is based on the requirement that it only applies to a selected few and adults today support the elderly so they can retire under the assumption that children will pay the adults for their retirement. If you open up the wel…

Btw people on work visas have no access to welfare, despite paying taxes that fund the welfare just the same. Permanent residents have some access to welfare, but there isn’t a straightforward path from work visa to green card. Who is suggesting US welfare has to support 7 billion people?

> Who is suggesting US welfare has to support 7 billion people?

That's the result from advocating free movement or no borders considering stats such as 52% of Africa's youth wanting to relocate to Europe or US. Unless you dismantle the welfare state. But it's possible that I misunderstood what the person meant with the 20th century comment.

Re: 60 Days to Find a Job or Leave the Country

#115

Post by flashgordon »

ravagat wrote: post #113
flashgordon wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wouldn't the actual solution be removing country caps (before bringing up diversity remember that country caps are on your country of birth, not naturalization so tell me how country of birth is not a skin color filter?) Or making this a point based scheme or making this region+comp based instead of a universal category all over? Also can the govt do anything to catch and filter the sub contractor companies or is it…

No, I think country caps help in filtering. If removed it would open a pandora's box like experience for anyone in the process and those processing the applicants. Systemizing immigration into a manageable process and system is a hard task. Too many layers. I think modifying the country caps right now would be of benefit rather than stricly removing them. Then a refresh of the filtering process, processing system ove…

Again not sure if you meant country cap by birth or naturalization? I am not an Indian citizen and yet get discriminated like one despite my citizenship (not that anyone should be). Put another way my Australian born brethren get treated better than I do. I am not sure how you think that is fair or inclusive?

Re: 60 Days to Find a Job or Leave the Country

#116

Post by rileymat2 »

mantas wrote: post #110
rileymat2 wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One thing that I would like to push back on the idea that “It is not a ‘human right’”. A “human right” is a social term defined by the demands of the people living in that time collectively. There is no list we can check off, it is what people demand and can fight for. By asserting the right they very well could be /creating/ it.

With your definition of „human rights“ we can just abolish the term altogether. The beauty of human rights was that it was supposed to be a well-defined set of core things. Which can't be granted, they just shouldn't be stamped on. But now „human rights“ is becoming a very polarised topic with many bits where person A is forced to do provide something to person B because it's „human rights“. Does person A has a „huma…

I think you are making a distinction between positive rights and negative rights; not human rights.

If it was supposed to be a a well-defined set of core things, where are you drawing that set from?

Re: 60 Days to Find a Job or Leave the Country

#117

Post by hsn915 »

krisoft wrote: post #53
hsn915 wrote: post #4

No country other than your country of origin owes you a right to stay. It's not inhumane or something to have visa only for work and not for indefinite residency. If the work visa was defacto a permanent residency visa, no one would give it and no one would get it.

> It's not inhumane or something to have visa only for work and not for indefinite residency. It is in fact inhumane. It is also "or something" if you mean "unethical" by that. The purpose of the arrangement is to obtain easy to exploit workforce to undercut the one locally available. The fact that it is precarious and exploitative is not an accident, but the goal.

By your characterization of the problem, the solution would seem to be to abolish work visas all together, and not allow any foriegners to stay for mere work.

Re: 60 Days to Find a Job or Leave the Country

#118

Post by hsn915 »

lordnacho wrote: post #59
hsn915 wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You could argue that even your country doesn't owe you anything merely for existing. You have responsibilities, not just rights. But for the purpose of this discussion, I'm assuming a person already has a country they belong to which does give them the right to stay. No other country owes you the right to stay. Singapore does not owe me the right to be there, let alone stay there. Each country is free to decide the r…

So where do stateless people such as myself belong (not stateless now, but previously)? There's corner cases in every rule, but there can be a lot of cases where people slip through the cracks.

That's another discussion though. The topic at hand is someone who has a country and had an opportunity to work in another country is complaining that they have to go back to their home country because the work visa is not a permanent residence visa.

Re: 60 Days to Find a Job or Leave the Country

#119

Post by AdamN »

suddenclarity wrote: post #64
AdamN wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hopefully we can change that in the future - people have been displaced over the centuries (and worse) but what you're saying is such a 20th century phenomenon that I'd like to see us move forward to better structures.

How is it a 20th century phenomenon? In the past we had barely no movement in comparison with today and at least here you actually had to apply for permission to move away. The whole welfare system is based on the requirement that it only applies to a selected few and adults today support the elderly so they can retire under the assumption that children will pay the adults for their retirement. If you open up the wel…

> In the past we had barely no movement in comparison with today

People used to be highly mobile (and continue to be). The Americas were settled by millions of Europeans and Africans before the United States even became a country. South Asians were moved to Africa during the colonial era en masse. Vikings settled all over Europe and even Istanbul. The Huns, Goths, Romans, were all on the move.

Re: 60 Days to Find a Job or Leave the Country

#120

Post by the_mar »

suddenclarity wrote: post #114
the_mar wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Btw people on work visas have no access to welfare, despite paying taxes that fund the welfare just the same. Permanent residents have some access to welfare, but there isn’t a straightforward path from work visa to green card. Who is suggesting US welfare has to support 7 billion people?

> Who is suggesting US welfare has to support 7 billion people? That's the result from advocating free movement or no borders considering stats such as 52% of Africa's youth wanting to relocate to Europe or US. Unless you dismantle the welfare state. But it's possible that I misunderstood what the person meant with the 20th century comment.

No one is advocating for no borders here. Most people are saying that the time given to h1b visa holders to find a new job is too short.

Opening US borders for a free-for-all would be of course a disaster. But even that is a bit of a stretch to say that entire world’s population would move to the US.

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