This looks absolutely amazing, and I think you guys are going to win big here.
My only concern is why the low SEER2? For a state of the art system like this I was expecting 22+
I am hovering over the pre-order button regardless...
Launch HN: Electric Air (YC W23) – Heat pump sold directly to homeowners
191–200 of 809 posts
Re: Launch HN: Electric Air (YC W23) – Heat pump sold directly to homeowners
#192My HVAC is 14 years old so we’re actually planning on replacing it sometime in the next 24 months. I’ve talked to a couple of HVAC companies already because I want more cooling power. When it’s above 100F (which it is for 3+ months of the year) my current system struggles to hold 80F. If we use the oven on a hot day, we may not get the temperature back down for days. Our winters are relatively mild (we don’t get much…
Have you considered assessing your home's insulation?
We did. We had more insulation blown into our attic (it gets crazy hot up there) and we are now looking for new windows.
Re: Launch HN: Electric Air (YC W23) – Heat pump sold directly to homeowners
#193Earlier quoted context omitted.
In the context of heat pumps, a "backup heating strip" is a resistive heating element - electricity goes in, heat comes out just like an old electric heater. They're generally used during defrost cycles for the external air handler in cold weather, or to provide a temporary thermal boost when the heat pump is having performance trouble e.g. when the exterior temperature is near the bottom of the heat pump's operating…
Whole-house heating with resistive electric heating is going to get expensive, quickly. If they're serious about installing these in cold weather climates, they should have more information about the cut over temperature and the efficiency of the heat pumps at those temperatures. Just for context, my heat pumps cut over around 40-45 degrees to gas-based heat.
Yeah, I'd like to see those figures too, and I think they might surprise you (and me). I don't have figures or references to hand here, but as I understand it modern heat pumps should be good down at least a little way below freezing. They're widely used and popular in Norway, for example, and the Norwegians aren't exactly new to cold weather.
Re: Launch HN: Electric Air (YC W23) – Heat pump sold directly to homeowners
#194Earlier quoted context omitted.
Would your company be willing to provide an open-source local-first websocket-based integration with https://www.home-assistant.io/ or use the new Matter + Thread standard to provide it for everyone? If that's available, this would be my top choice as I'm actively shopping for all-electric heat pumps
It's something we'd definitely consider. Is the desire to have thermostat control via any third party? edit - The current plan has been Matter/thread Homekit + Google Home integration. We can expose at least temperature control via this to everyone.
I think going with Matter would give you the best bang for your buck as you would get virtually every major smart home hub system.
You would still be able to do more with your own app as matter will probably mainly support the lowest common denominator across your category.
Re: Launch HN: Electric Air (YC W23) – Heat pump sold directly to homeowners
#195Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's something we'd definitely consider. Is the desire to have thermostat control via any third party? edit - The current plan has been Matter/thread Homekit + Google Home integration. We can expose at least temperature control via this to everyone.
HA user here as well, having a non-locked down API at minimum (i.e. not actively trying to stop folks using it), through to an open and documented api (would be great), through to open firmware (would be best) and or releasing your own integration for HA would likely get you those kinda customers.
If people have a preferred way of integrating their devices, like home assistant, I'd want to make that possible for people to do with Electric Air.
Re the sizing question - this is a part of the site that needs improvement. 12kbtu is 1 ton. The 48kbtu system is a 4ton system, but rated at 5F, if you're in a more temperate climate, two of these will likely have plenty of capacity for you. It's also likely that your current system is oversized.
Re: Launch HN: Electric Air (YC W23) – Heat pump sold directly to homeowners
#196Earlier quoted context omitted.
Would your company be willing to provide an open-source local-first websocket-based integration with https://www.home-assistant.io/ or use the new Matter + Thread standard to provide it for everyone? If that's available, this would be my top choice as I'm actively shopping for all-electric heat pumps
It's something we'd definitely consider. Is the desire to have thermostat control via any third party? edit - The current plan has been Matter/thread Homekit + Google Home integration. We can expose at least temperature control via this to everyone.
For me the goal is 100% local control. I found out the other day that I couldn't turn my 8sleep mattress on because a guy down the street struck a fiber line. My bed was basically a $4k brick as soon as the internet went down.
Look at it this way, it saves you money in server costs and performs much better.
Re: Launch HN: Electric Air (YC W23) – Heat pump sold directly to homeowners
#197Earlier quoted context omitted.
I will not buy this without a fully unlocked everything. This company is going to wait a few years and then charge you a shit ton for subscription to keep using your device. No thanks, and honestly whoever goes with this is going to regret it if they don't make changes to their software. Pick one: - Sell the device - Sell the software If you do both, you're going to alienate your customers and get regulatory wrath on…
I understand the concern around lock in. There is a technical hurdle to optimized thermostat variable speed heat pump interop. You have to turn the temperature error between setpoint and actual temperature into a compressor speed command and also factor in behavior such as defrost, compressor cycling limits, etc. So you have to have a communicating thermostat to fully utilize the efficiency of these variable speed he…
This is not strictly true.
Mr. Cool has a 2-Ton heat pump (Designed to work with existing ducting) that can operate off of a normal non-communicating thermostat. It still hits 19 SEER and does a lot of that optimization on the controller side. And when it comes to mini splits there are lots of them that will work with a normal thermostat.
I know this, well, because I’ve spent many countless hours trying to find something that will work with Z-Wave and not a proprietary communicating system. Granted it might be less efficient but efficiency is way less important than having the ability to do that. The only exception I would consider is if the communicating thermostat was fully open and had a decent API that worked without Internet access.
Re: Launch HN: Electric Air (YC W23) – Heat pump sold directly to homeowners
#198Earlier quoted context omitted.
Counterpoint — I have an app for my Mitsubishi heat pump and use it all the time. It’s way more convenient and lets me hyper optimize my house. I actually don’t even use the physical ones at all anymore
Are you tied to the app?
Mitsubishi heat pumps has a local thermostat that operates by remote, no cloud access needed, so if the app's servers go down it will still function.
Re: Launch HN: Electric Air (YC W23) – Heat pump sold directly to homeowners
#199Earlier quoted context omitted.
Are you tied to the app?
No, my phone is wireless
Pretty sure they were asking if you could still access all the functionality currently provided by the app if it were to go away for some reason (who can see the future? It's not impossible Mitsubishi goes out of business or the app gets cancelled/pulled after some number of years)
Re: Launch HN: Electric Air (YC W23) – Heat pump sold directly to homeowners
#200Chris, one of my biggest worries is that your startup will get acquired or go out of business and then the firmware will leave me with a $14,000 brick. What if I want to keep using the cloud-based thermostat when your servers get shut off or moved to another system, or if something like Google Nest closing down their API happens after you've exited? This is an expensive system with an expected long life, and I'd want…
My thoughts too. Local heating/cooling should not be tied to the cloud period. If it doesn't use the normal wiring people already have it's a hard pass from me.
>If it doesn't use the normal wiring people already have it's a hard pass from me.
Why? a real smart thermostat can just use the existing wiring for power and then use IP over Wifi or Matter/Thread to communicate. Way better than the crappy wiring in most people's houses for thermostat control.