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Launch HN: Electric Air (YC W23) – Heat pump sold directly to homeowners

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Re: Launch HN: Electric Air (YC W23) – Heat pump sold directly to homeowners

#51

Post by dawnerd »

cmui wrote: post #45
z3ugma wrote: post #12

Chris, one of my biggest worries is that your startup will get acquired or go out of business and then the firmware will leave me with a $14,000 brick. What if I want to keep using the cloud-based thermostat when your servers get shut off or moved to another system, or if something like Google Nest closing down their API happens after you've exited? This is an expensive system with an expected long life, and I'd want…

I totally get this concern. Any good piece of critical home infrastructure should be able to operate without the cloud or an internet connection. Following this logic the thermostat + heat pump combination can operate fine without the cloud. You leave some optimized behavior on the table like demand response and weather response, but everything else will work (you'd have to manually enter your TOU rate plan to get th…

that's good to hear, I'd make sure it's mentioned in the FAQ at the bottom.

Re: Launch HN: Electric Air (YC W23) – Heat pump sold directly to homeowners

#52

Post by tguvot »

Putting aside fact that homeowners can buy HVACs online and get it shipped, how it differs from mrcool ducted heatpump that, for example can be bought for under 4k for 3ton model and have DIY install (no vacuuming needed), besides nicer of external unit and prettier app ? as opposed to 12k for yours + 8k install ?

Re: Launch HN: Electric Air (YC W23) – Heat pump sold directly to homeowners

#53

Post by Scoundreller »

richwater wrote: post #35

I was raised on the belief that Heat Pumps could not be used in climates that really got "cold". I see the website lists -15 degrees as the operating temperature. What has changed in the past years to enable this? It seems like this would cover most of the contintental US now.

Probably better/more efficient defrost cycles. And maybe refrigerant choices.

Re: Launch HN: Electric Air (YC W23) – Heat pump sold directly to homeowners

#54

Post by londons_explore »

z3ugma wrote: post #12

Chris, one of my biggest worries is that your startup will get acquired or go out of business and then the firmware will leave me with a $14,000 brick. What if I want to keep using the cloud-based thermostat when your servers get shut off or moved to another system, or if something like Google Nest closing down their API happens after you've exited? This is an expensive system with an expected long life, and I'd want…

I'd want to see a guarantee of "We will either keep running the servers forever, maintaining all current features, or we will opensource all the server side code, so you or someone else can keep running it".

I'd want the code handed over to a third party to guarantee this (so the company can't walk back on their promise).

Re: Launch HN: Electric Air (YC W23) – Heat pump sold directly to homeowners

#55

Post by rcme »

signaturefish wrote: post #37
rcme wrote: post #24

Those are beautiful looking units. It's a cool idea to focus on giving something very pedestrian and utilitarian a nice cosmetic overhaul. I just replaced radiators with a heat pump install. I had a few questions about your units: What are "backup heating strips?" They're mentioned in passing when talking about cold weather, but I imagine there is some meat here. Also, even though many heat pumps work in cold weather…

In the context of heat pumps, a "backup heating strip" is a resistive heating element - electricity goes in, heat comes out just like an old electric heater. They're generally used during defrost cycles for the external air handler in cold weather, or to provide a temporary thermal boost when the heat pump is having performance trouble e.g. when the exterior temperature is near the bottom of the heat pump's operating…

Whole-house heating with resistive electric heating is going to get expensive, quickly. If they're serious about installing these in cold weather climates, they should have more information about the cut over temperature and the efficiency of the heat pumps at those temperatures.

Just for context, my heat pumps cut over around 40-45 degrees to gas-based heat.

Re: Launch HN: Electric Air (YC W23) – Heat pump sold directly to homeowners

#57

Post by cmui »

aaomidi wrote: post #42
z3ugma wrote: post #12

Chris, one of my biggest worries is that your startup will get acquired or go out of business and then the firmware will leave me with a $14,000 brick. What if I want to keep using the cloud-based thermostat when your servers get shut off or moved to another system, or if something like Google Nest closing down their API happens after you've exited? This is an expensive system with an expected long life, and I'd want…

I will not buy this without a fully unlocked everything. This company is going to wait a few years and then charge you a shit ton for subscription to keep using your device. No thanks, and honestly whoever goes with this is going to regret it if they don't make changes to their software. Pick one: - Sell the device - Sell the software If you do both, you're going to alienate your customers and get regulatory wrath on…

I understand the concern around lock in. There is a technical hurdle to optimized thermostat variable speed heat pump interop. You have to turn the temperature error between setpoint and actual temperature into a compressor speed command and also factor in behavior such as defrost, compressor cycling limits, etc. So you have to have a communicating thermostat to fully utilize the efficiency of these variable speed heat pump systems, not just a collection of analog on/off wires.

Re: Launch HN: Electric Air (YC W23) – Heat pump sold directly to homeowners

#59

Post by sokoloff »

I tried like hell to install an air-to-water heat pump instead of a replacement gas boiler and it didn't make anything close to economic sense to do so.

What do I want from a heat-pump:

I want it to work with a contact-closure (TT/XX) input to call for heat/cooling. Sure, if you have a fancy thermostat that works better, I'm going to read the brochure, but I'm not buying it if I find out it won't work with just a dry contact input.

I want it to use parts that are in stock at my local HVAC supply house. I don't want to be without heat for 3+ days while some obscure custom part is shipped in from someplace across the country.

I want it to have an open interface to extract data (similar to the open interface of a dry-contact closure) about run-time, performance, etc. (I will, however, buy it without this.)

I want it to be sold/serviced by multiple competing suppliers in my area. (This is what ultimately undid the chance to install an A2W heat pump: only one company was in the business of supplying them and they priced it accordingly.)

For a mini-split system, I want to be able to run the refrigerant and condensate lines inside the building so I don't have hideous lineset covers festooning my house.

I'm happy to chat more as a homeowner interested in the space (but with a 6 month old Bosch boiler on the wall and possibly interested in the minisplit for shoulder season heating and summer cooling).

Re: Launch HN: Electric Air (YC W23) – Heat pump sold directly to homeowners

#60

Post by heatpumpfan »

Scoundreller wrote: post #53
richwater wrote: post #35

I was raised on the belief that Heat Pumps could not be used in climates that really got "cold". I see the website lists -15 degrees as the operating temperature. What has changed in the past years to enable this? It seems like this would cover most of the contintental US now.

Probably better/more efficient defrost cycles. And maybe refrigerant choices.

Refrigerant, pressure, vapor injection, and a highly "managed" vapor compression cycle.
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