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Ivy League Schools Sure Look Like a Cartel

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Re: Ivy League Schools Sure Look Like a Cartel

#81

Post by kevin_thibedeau »

dylan604 wrote: post #71
LudwigNagasena wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A university shouldn’t be in the business of competition for athletic stars. Let NBA and other sports organizations do that. They may open their own sports schools and whatnot.

>They may open their own sports schools and whatnot. why would they open themselves up to those kinds of expenses and liabilities when their feeder systems are working just fine for them now?

College isn't supposed to be a farm league. Baseball has a workable system and they have the most grueling schedule of all professional sports. Nothing prevents the NFL and NBA from doing the same.

Re: Ivy League Schools Sure Look Like a Cartel

#82

Post by nmca »

WastingMyTime89 wrote: post #65
jalla wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cambridge, Oxford and Imperial College in the UK admit students and provide benefits, scholarships and bursaries to people that are considered world class rowing talent, quietly and unofficially. Many European countries have special programs for sports talents to develop and receive economic benefits whilst serving military service and/or seeking higher education. Most people don't know anything about these programs…

To be blunt as someone who attended Oxford and was friend with someone who ended up coxing the Blue boat, nobody gives an actual shit about rowing there. It’s just a funny tradition. Colleges boat clubs are nice because the sport is great, the two bump races are fun and the mixers are rowdy. The Boat race is seen as a funny tradition and an excuse to compete with Cambridge. It is in no way as serious as academic leag…

^ this is not true (source: attended)

Re: Ivy League Schools Sure Look Like a Cartel

#83

Post by whimsicalism »

NovemberWhiskey wrote: post #75
sandkoan wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Ivies and adjacent elite colleges are more than capable of giving out academic scholarships—they simply refuse to because that would lead to a race to the bottom in terms of how much money they'd be able to extract from top talent (who could easily negotiate colleges against each other for lower and lower tuition). And, from experience, Colubmia's defection hardly counts for much (which is why, I suspect, it's pe…

This is totally ridiculous; virtually all of the Ivies offer need-blind funding; if you're admitted, then you're going to get whatever amount of scholarship you need to go. You can look at Yale's details here: https://finaid.yale.edu/costs-affordability/affordability ... e.g. virtually all families earning less than $75K per year will get a full-ride plus a $2,000 grant in the first year. Are you seriously criticizin…

I think the parent commentator would reject that you need to pick between need-based and merit scholarships. I have no idea how it would impact spend and whether it would be sustainable or not to provide full-need & merit scholarship.

Re: Ivy League Schools Sure Look Like a Cartel

#84

Post by musicale »

whimsicalism wrote: post #48
musicale wrote: post #43

It was always baffling to me that collusion on financial aid wasn't illegal (also note that it's not just the Ivies that are involved.) I find this particularly interesting: "But the 3rd Circuit’s 1993 rationale isn’t helpful to the Ivies today. Back then, the court rejected the government’s accusation that the schools’ cooperation on financial aid increased tuition for other students. But subsequent work has conclud…

But very few at Yale etc. pay full sticker. it’s basically perfect price discrimination you have to have a very affluent family to pay full sticker at Yale or Harvard.

Are you suggesting that doubling tuition didn't actually put more money in Yale's pockets?

Yale currently takes in some $475 million in tuition, room and board. In 1990 the number was $165M, equivalent to about $378M today.

Re: Ivy League Schools Sure Look Like a Cartel

#85

Post by AceyMan »

kevin_thibedeau wrote: post #81
dylan604 wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>They may open their own sports schools and whatnot. why would they open themselves up to those kinds of expenses and liabilities when their feeder systems are working just fine for them now?

College isn't supposed to be a farm league. Baseball has a workable system and they have the most grueling schedule of all professional sports. Nothing prevents the NFL and NBA from doing the same.

>they have the most grueling schedule of all professional sports

The ATP & WTA would take issue with that claim.

Re: Ivy League Schools Sure Look Like a Cartel

#86

Post by michaelbuckbee »

lofatdairy wrote: post #60

Cui bono? There are a lot of problems with the Ivy League, the lack of athletic scholarships are one of the few things they do absolutely right. The thing is that athletics are less, not more democratic as a distribution mechanism for admission slots. The author seems to be under the mistaken belief that most of these slots would be available for your football and basketball players, where stories of rising from pove…

Netflix has a docu-series called "Last Chance U" about the junior college athletic system and how it operates.

I knew intellectually that college athletes were coddled academically and while it's hard not to root for the individuals depicted in the documentary to succeed it's also hard not to think that there must be dozens of kids at the schools where they come from that were more academically inclined and could have made better use of the resources provided to the student athletes.

Re: Ivy League Schools Sure Look Like a Cartel

#87

Post by riku_iki »

NovemberWhiskey wrote: post #75
sandkoan wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Ivies and adjacent elite colleges are more than capable of giving out academic scholarships—they simply refuse to because that would lead to a race to the bottom in terms of how much money they'd be able to extract from top talent (who could easily negotiate colleges against each other for lower and lower tuition). And, from experience, Colubmia's defection hardly counts for much (which is why, I suspect, it's pe…

This is totally ridiculous; virtually all of the Ivies offer need-blind funding; if you're admitted, then you're going to get whatever amount of scholarship you need to go. You can look at Yale's details here: https://finaid.yale.edu/costs-affordability/affordability ... e.g. virtually all families earning less than $75K per year will get a full-ride plus a $2,000 grant in the first year. Are you seriously criticizin…

> e.g. virtually all families earning less than $75K per year will get a full-ride plus a $2,000 grant in the first year.

and some middle class parents with two kids need to sell house to cover tuition?..

Re: Ivy League Schools Sure Look Like a Cartel

#88

Post by astura »

whimsicalism wrote: post #50
lazyasciiart wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the US you write an essay to send to the college with your application, about why you should be accepted. I don’t know of anywhere else that has anything like it. Edit: examples https://www.usnews.com/education/best-colleges/articles/2019...

Oxford certainly has it when i applied.

And my college in the US didn't require one, and I didn't write one. It was optional.

Re: Ivy League Schools Sure Look Like a Cartel

#90

Post by pinewurst »

lofatdairy wrote: post #66
brian_cunnie wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It has historical roots in excluding Jewish students I'm glad the Ivy (Penn) that I graduated from over thirty years ago was enlightened enough to admit good students regardless of whether they were Jewish. Or Asian. > athletics has been a backdoor for admissions ... used to exclude ... those outside the upper class. The student athlete I knew, my roommate Tony Tomaska, was the son of a Chicago policeman. He played…

I do recommend the Third Reich in the Ivy League as a generally good read, which highlights the significantly more nazi-sympathetic student body at harvard with the more activist population at Columbia, largely in part due to the fact that Columbia failed to attract the white elites of NYC and had a larger Jewish population as a result. >The student athlete I knew, my roommate Tony Tomaska, was the son of a Chicago p…

FYI it’s “The Third Reich in the Ivory Tower”
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