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Apple and Foxconn win permission for 12-hour shifts for women in India

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Re: Apple and Foxconn win permission for 12-hour shifts for women in India

#91

What a sad world we live in where the ability to work for 12 hours straight is seen as a good thing.

I know right? I find it strange how the bulk of the HN crowd seems to applaud this.

12 hour average job in India is not like your comfy WFH Silicon Valley BS Jira ticket work.

Re: Apple and Foxconn win permission for 12-hour shifts for women in India

#92
post #53

My mom works 12 hour shifts as a CNC machinist in the United States. Is there some point to this article or is it just neat to know?

Yes, most modern countries have between 35 and 40 hour work weeks.

Most modern "developed" countries. 48 hour standard work weeks are pretty standard for developing countries.

Re: Apple and Foxconn win permission for 12-hour shifts for women in India

#93

I read TFA and didn't notice an answer to my question below. Do men already have this permission? If so, I don't see why women shouldn't.

Shouldn't be too hard with a good reason. Ever noticed how men and women aren't exactly the same?

Re: Apple and Foxconn win permission for 12-hour shifts for women in India

#94
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's terrible for the workers, because currently they get overtime pay beyond 9 hours, this law effectively reduces overtime by 3 hours. Women also play a bigger role in running the household, and with 12-hour shifts plus commute time, this must take a big toll on the family.

These are - relatively - good jobs, right?

Not particularly.

You're earning around $2.5k a year (1.8 lpa) which isn't the most competitive even in most of India tbh, especially when factoring CoL in Karnataka. If this was Andhra Pradesh, Rajasthan, or Harit Pradesh/Western UP (regions of India with the right mix of supply chain and cheap labor), it might fly with migrants from Bihar, Purvanchal, and the Tribal Belt, but definetly not in KN.

You can easily earn that much in farming, or via alternative unskilled labor with better work hours (eg. street food stalls, MGNREGA, etc).

Re: Apple and Foxconn win permission for 12-hour shifts for women in India

#95

I don't get this. Why push your work force like this? It's clearly very bad for the workers. And also for the factory, surely having 3 shifts is more efficient because your workers are not as fatigued so will work faster with fewer mistakes?

I don't think it is the rational to come into a situation and assume that everyone but you is wrong and incapable of judging what is best for them.

in India there are hundreds of millions of workers that would love to work 12 hours shifts for more pay and a better quality of life. I'm sure there are advantages to the factory as well.

Re: Apple and Foxconn win permission for 12-hour shifts for women in India

#97
https://nypost.com/2020/12/15/riots-at-apple-plant-in-india-...

this is what apple does. they use their clout, then they turn their back and play ignorant whilst placing unrealistic demands on the subcontractors who then place those demand on the labour.

from: https://www.macrumors.com/2023/02/14/only-half-of-indian-iph...

> 'Apple engineers told that Chinese iPhone suppliers and government officials have a "whatever it takes" approach to win iPhone orders, work was often completed weeks ahead of schedule at "inexplicable speed". In India, [we] are not running at this pace. "There just isn't a sense of urgency," one Apple engineer remarked.'

Re: Apple and Foxconn win permission for 12-hour shifts for women in India

#98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you elaborate what precisely is the issue with low female participation in a country's workforce?

The fact that half your workforce doesn't have an opportunity to contribute to the country's growth? I mean, cut the US or Europe's output by 25-30% (to match India's low female participation) and you're basically talking about eliminating decades of growth. People would be so much poorer and worse off. And that's just at the national level. There are a whole lot of other issues at the individual level, and the fact…

Is a nations prosperity only related to its nominal growth and GDP?

Then why don't we send more children to work as well to increase "growth" a bit further?

Are there no tradeoffs involved? Like what it does to a country's demographics and families?

Are there other ways to increase GDP without forcing women into the workforce - with potentially better tradeoffs?

Re: Apple and Foxconn win permission for 12-hour shifts for women in India

#99
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hospitals are a little different in that society has more of an incentive for longer shifts since shift changes end up killing people as the knowledge transfer isn't perfect from one shift to the next. That incentive makes it reasonable to treat healthcare workers a little differently from a legal perspective when compared with jobs with less societal benefit like making iPhones.

The shift change problem can be eliminated by having shifts overlap, hospitals just don't want to hire more staff to make that happen.

An overlap improves things slightly, but it isn't a magic solution. If it was that easy to transfer knowledge during an overlap, then they could also document that knowledge for the next shift without any overlap. And if your suggestion really just amounts to hiring more staff improves patient outcomes, I don't think anyone would disagree with you.

Re: Apple and Foxconn win permission for 12-hour shifts for women in India

#100
post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly; this idea that we HAVE to overwork our medical professionals is just outdated, and especially since COVID, actively detrimental to our healthcare systems. Hire more people, pay them more, and give them time off so they don't burn out or get sick themselves.

> Hire more people Sure. Where are all of these medical professionals who are looking for work?

A reasonable percentage may consist of immigrants who qualify to practice in their native countries but do not in America. I think that’s a thing.
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