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Ethically Sourced Lena Picture

mortenhannemose.github.io

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Re: Ethically Sourced Lena Picture

#171

Post by smcl »

bee_rider wrote: post #139
smcl wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a good point, it may be cathartic, it may be deserved but it isn't really helpful.

Plus it brings us into the world of the crass and stupid, where Trump has the home team advantage.

I think you got downvoted because on face value that looks like a cheap shot. But in truth it does play well with Trump's fanbase when he takes aim at an opponent and starts talking smack about them publicly. Those opposed to Trump, it seems to me, tire easily of that and prefer a bit of civility, or at least the pretence of it.

So what you're saying is roughly "when you engage in petty slap-fights with Trump you kinda are playing to his strengths" - which is true.

Re: Ethically Sourced Lena Picture

#172

Post by dahart »

twodave wrote: post #159
dahart wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why are you doubling down on your assumption that this is about Lena without you knowing what actually happened? What makes you assume she didn’t know full well the image was not under her control? What makes you assume control over the image is even a relevant issue here? The issue and the debate surrounding this image has almost nothing to do with how Lena feels about the image, and was neither initiated nor pursue…

> Why are you doubling down on your assumption that this is about Lena without you knowing what actually happened? What makes you assume she didn’t know full well the image was not under her control? What makes you assume control over the image is even a relevant issue here? Three loaded questions in a row. I think you're reading more into my comments than I stated or intended. I'm not assuming anything, just answeri…

Hehe it’s funny to complain about perceived lessons right after saying “That class of thinking is exactly what she should have considered.”

What I think I hear you saying is you don’t like the article’s title (an article that wasn’t written or endorsed by Lena) perhaps because it implies (without stating explicitly) that the original picture was unethical. The new one can be ethically sourced without the old one being unethically sourced. It is an assumption on your part that anyone said anything about the original image being unethically “sourced”. If you want to say that words matter, it definitely makes sense to double-check if your interpretation of words is accurate, and whether you’re taking them literally or projecting assumptions, especially when you, as you’ve said, lack context.

The bigger picture here is that the “ethics” of the situation aren’t related to Lena’s choices, which you’ve assumed and claimed and stated explicitly multiple times now. The ethics in this debate are surrounding the ethical use of pinup images in educational and work settings, and is not related to the original sourcing of the image by Playboy specifically aside from it being published in a soft core magazine which makes it symbolic of the lack of tact when using it for scientific or educational purposes.

Re: Ethically Sourced Lena Picture

#173

Post by daneel_w »

CydeWeys wrote: post #163
daneel_w wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not pornography. The full image is erotic in its nature. The cropped image aligns with pretty much any other non-nude glamour photography.

This is from a shoot in literally the most well known and influential pornographic magazine of all time. Y'all don't even know what the word means if you don't think Playboy centerfold shoot qualifies.

> "Y'all don't even know what the word means if you don't think Playboy centerfold shoot qualifies."

Right back at you.

Re: Ethically Sourced Lena Picture

#174

Post by dahart »

twodave wrote: post #160
dahart wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You assumed and claimed falsely that Lena regrets the “business transaction” with the photo. I asked for evidence of that. You claimed this wasn’t about ethics and framed it as only about Lena. I asked for evidence of that. You could maybe use some evidence on account of my belief that your claims above are not true.

That's not true. I qualified the statement with "potentially" because I don't know whether she regrets it or not. The article title implies the image was sourced unethically, and my whole point was whether she regrets the photo or not today has nothing to do with whether it was of ethical origins.

Your top comment is making assumptions with or without the qualification. Even the suggestion that there’s “potential” regret is an assumption. It’s fair for me to point this out since I already knew that wasn’t true, there was no such potential.

Edit to add the other massive assumption you keep making repeatedly is that the term “ethically sourced” says anything about the transaction between Lena and Playboy. It doesn’t. It would be fair to call an image from Penthouse put into a high school math book “unethically sourced”, where “sourced” is referring to the book author’s choice, not to either the model’s nor the magazine’s. The image can be ethically and legally acquired and still the use of it can be unethical.

Re: Ethically Sourced Lena Picture

#175

Post by danuker »

NovemberWhiskey wrote: post #116
gbanfalvi wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> When you're using your own body in a business transaction (of _any kind_) you should really think through the possible consequences. Yeah, when she was modelling for playboy she should've thought "what if a nerd somewhere takes this photo of me and unknowingly turns it into a commonplace testing asset in an industry niche in 50 years that doesn't even exist in my current time?" More seriously, the original copyrigh…

> More seriously, the original copyright owner (the photographer? playboy?) probably didn't license it for use as a visual benchmarking asset for graphics algorithms. The rights owner (Playboy, in this case) is on record saying they made a conscious choice not to enforce their rights to this image.

Indeed, the first thing I did when I found the image as a teen was look for the rest of it.

It acts like free advertising.

Sadly it is against the model's wishes, so I'd feel bad. I will use the ethical replacement from now on.

Re: Ethically Sourced Lena Picture

#176

Post by pseudalopex »

nemo44x wrote: post #69
matthews2 wrote: post #3

Background: the original Lena picture comes from the Playboy Magazine, and the model doesn't want people to use it. https://pursuit.unimelb.edu.au/articles/it-s-time-to-retire-...

Is Playboy exploitive or empowering today? I can't keep up.

Every day is the day when people have individual opinions. And those opinions can be more complex than good or bad.

Re: Ethically Sourced Lena Picture

#177

Post by benj111 »

Version467 wrote: post #32
benj111 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really? Presumably she was paid. I don't know what the copyright situation is, but assuming she doesn't hold that I don't know what the issue is. Isn't it like trump objecting to images of his in court accompanying a news item?

That she likely has no legal recourse does not mean that developers and researchers cannot respect her wishes. It's not like this specific image has an inherent property that somehow makes it the superior test image.

>It's not like this specific image has an inherent property that somehow makes it the superior test image.

Surely that fact that it is the standard test image makes it a superior image.

If there's a format that I can't reproduce, there's a good chance there's an image of Lena to compare against.

Re: Ethically Sourced Lena Picture

#178

Post by benj111 »

Dobbs wrote: post #18
benj111 wrote: post #8

So we're swapping the possibly problematic ethics of a original with the possibly problematic ethics of showing this to people? I mean is it normal to find that mustache and hat combo this attractive, (as a hetero male)???

How is this image ethically problematic?

I was mainly joking.

Although the are issues about this in a professional setting.

If you display this to a prospective client in place of Lena, they think it's unprofessional and don't employ your services, your company goes under and you lose your job, is there not an ethical component to that?

Re: Ethically Sourced Lena Picture

#179

Post by mock-possum »

thepasswordis wrote: post #87

Can we please just have some things with some soul? This is a cute photo, the model in the photo has said she thinks is cool and kindof funny that it has been used for image research, the story is kindof cute and funny, and it's just...all around wholesome. The people who want to get rid of this stuff are sad. The world does not need to be a soulless, beige, featureless, boring slurry of boring featureless HR spoken…

yeah but think it through - what kind of 'soul' is there in this story, when you really dig down to the bottom of it, eh?

Cropped nude pinups aren't really what I'd call 'wholesome' - and the prospect of being in a room full of people working off that reference image doesn't really sound too comfortable to me.

Additionally: we all know there's a reason it's a naked white cis girl's butt. Change any of those attributes and it immediately becomes less sexually arousing to most straight men. Is that really the kind of 'soul' you're looking for? it's trite at best.

Re: Ethically Sourced Lena Picture

#180

Post by mock-possum »

luckylion wrote: post #124
panki27 wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

She said: “I retired from modelling a long time ago. It’s time I retired from tech, too. We can make a simple change today that creates a lasting change for tomorrow. Let’s commit to losing me.” https://www.thedrum.com/news/2019/11/19/gender-equality-ad-c...

Yes, after like 50 years of saying the opposite, including a few months before that statement was given. It looks like a SJW campaign approached her about it to make some noise but didn't really bother enough to keep their website secured with a valid SSL certificate.

This comment is so gross. Consent can be revoked at any time. Bringing up 'SWJ campaign' as if it's some sort of bogeyman that immediately delegitimizes her wishes is a red flag.
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