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Tesla's next-gen electric motors will get rid of rare earth elements

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Re: Tesla's next-gen electric motors will get rid of rare earth elements

#81
Gotta love how Musk brings actual practical solutions to issues that leftists are usually more concerned about, they must hate it. :o)

Same with SpaceX bringing an end to reliance on Russia. Without him, space industry would still be dangerously reliant on Putin.

Re: Tesla's next-gen electric motors will get rid of rare earth elements

#82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ehh, Tesla just sold their 4 millionth vehicle (waited until then for investor day so they could flex), are breaking ground in Mexico shortly on their new factory, and are rapidly approaching $100B/year in revenue at a 25-30% margin (while other EV startups are teetering near death and legacies are slow to catch up). Constructive skepticism is fine, but strong evidence of their innovation capacity is available (espec…

Strong evidence of their innovation capacity will never overcome intense dislike of the brand. And will never translate into a sale (n=1).

N=2. I love my model 3 but doubt I will ever buy another Tesla branded device. I’m currently speccing solar with batteries for my house, and I’ve taken Tesla off the table.

They make good gear but I don’t want to put another dollar in that guy’s pocket.

Re: Tesla's next-gen electric motors will get rid of rare earth elements

#83
post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>just as newer battery chemistries moved away from cobalt Tesla seems to be the leader here. Per Investor Day[0] and other sources, they - developed low-cobalt and low-nickel cathodes, to reduce scarce battery metals - increased overall vehicle efficiency to allow iron cathodes which are earth-abundant - consolidated electronic modules to reduce microchips and wiring - are soon switching to 48V, to further reduce low…

Have they delivered the robotaxis that were promised several years ago?

I don’t see why that’s relevant with the topic of reducing consumption of certain rare elements. Then failing at some of the goals shouldn’t detract from what has been accomplished. And if the end result is just electric cars that don’t use rara elements I think that’s a good thing, even without robotaxis

Re: Tesla's next-gen electric motors will get rid of rare earth elements

#84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is really funny when West is discovering magic of cheap aluminum for wires, while former Eastern Block is ripping aluminum wires from walls because it is no.1 reason for fires.

Aluminum is perfectly fine as a conductor, and perfectly safe. In the USA, we've used aluminum for most of our power transmission and distribution since the beginning of "the grid". Everything from the power plant to the meter at your home is connected with aluminum. Where aluminum causes fires is due to the fact that it expands and contracts more than copper does, and it can oxidize and corrode when not properly car…

Perhaps the decrease in reliability was pitched internally as a way to sell more Teslas in the future?

Re: Tesla's next-gen electric motors will get rid of rare earth elements

#85
post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's possible that where you live and visit is full of Teslas, but that might not be a random sample. But for a while, you had to get a Tesla to get a pure EV. The real question is, as competitors come online, are people likely to purchase another Tesla or try something new?

EV start-ups competing with Tesla are all struggling. It's very likely that Rivian will simply go bankrupt in the next few years. The big automakers are also struggling, largely because their best sellers are bigger vehicles, at least in the US and charging & battery tech just isn't there for those models. Look at the attempt at the EV Hummer, it's a joke. My sample doesn't have to be random, 10 years ago I could go…

Huh, I was actually surprised at all the Fords I saw in The Netherlands when I went (2007-8 somewhere in there)

(And no I’m not confusing it for fjords in Norway)

Re: Tesla's next-gen electric motors will get rid of rare earth elements

#86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ehh, Tesla just sold their 4 millionth vehicle (waited until then for investor day so they could flex), are breaking ground in Mexico shortly on their new factory, and are rapidly approaching $100B/year in revenue at a 25-30% margin (while other EV startups are teetering near death and legacies are slow to catch up). Constructive skepticism is fine, but strong evidence of their innovation capacity is available (espec…

Strong evidence of their innovation capacity will never overcome intense dislike of the brand. And will never translate into a sale (n=1).

I mean this as politely as possible: no one cares what a few people in the HN bubble think.

Units sold are units sold, and the total global addressable market for EVs is substantial (60-80 million units/pa, depending on bucketing).

I too have personal opinions, but crucially, one should not extrapolate them out to entire markets without a rigorous examination of observations and data. Put your ear to the ground, otherwise you’ll get trampled.

Re: Tesla's next-gen electric motors will get rid of rare earth elements

#87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I disagree with the (admittedly large) subset of Chinese people who support the CCP, but me having a negative view of them as people doesn't follow from that. That's funny. Chinese people support CCP. Chinese people want CCP to stay in power. CCP is made of Chinese people, and reflects quite a bit of Chinese culture. You want the CCP to go to hell. But you think Chinese people are awesome. Are you just trying to be…

Chinese people are brought up in an environment that tells them to support the CCP and where vocal dissent is punished. Their centrally controlled media ecosystem is rigged against them being able to think and speak clearly on this issue. They have been the primary victims of the CCP since its inception. Also, Chinese people aren't a monolith. If you sorted Chinese people by how jingoistic they are I would probably d…

I’ve lived in China and have friends there. People there aren’t told to love the CCP. They all have gripes about it like any people would have for their government. It’s not like North Korea. They do not want to overthrow it because the country is stable and their lives are improving.

You underestimate the power the people have over the government. When Chinese are pissed off, they will go on the streets and protest and demand changes. Just check the riots over banks and real estate there recently.

And why does the CCP want Taiwan back? It’s because their people demand Taiwan back.

I find it hilarious when people say they love Chinese people but hate the CCP. Either they’re disingenuous because they dislike both or they don’t understand China.

Re: Tesla's next-gen electric motors will get rid of rare earth elements

#88
post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's possible that where you live and visit is full of Teslas, but that might not be a random sample. But for a while, you had to get a Tesla to get a pure EV. The real question is, as competitors come online, are people likely to purchase another Tesla or try something new?

EV start-ups competing with Tesla are all struggling. It's very likely that Rivian will simply go bankrupt in the next few years. The big automakers are also struggling, largely because their best sellers are bigger vehicles, at least in the US and charging & battery tech just isn't there for those models. Look at the attempt at the EV Hummer, it's a joke. My sample doesn't have to be random, 10 years ago I could go…

> You would not see Toyotas or Fords, etc. Tesla has been made into an exception.

I'm sorry, but this is just completely false. Both car brands are extremely popular in most parts of Europe, not sure where you've been...

Teslas are also popular, no doubt about it. They have some advantages (for example, the charging network) compared to others, we'll see how long it will last. As opposed to the US, the main EU high-speed charging network competitor (called Ionity) is actually getting close to full coverage in most EU countries (except for Greece, for some reason), and is of similar quality, albeit a bit more expensive.

Re: Tesla's next-gen electric motors will get rid of rare earth elements

#89
post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's possible that where you live and visit is full of Teslas, but that might not be a random sample. But for a while, you had to get a Tesla to get a pure EV. The real question is, as competitors come online, are people likely to purchase another Tesla or try something new?

EV start-ups competing with Tesla are all struggling. It's very likely that Rivian will simply go bankrupt in the next few years. The big automakers are also struggling, largely because their best sellers are bigger vehicles, at least in the US and charging & battery tech just isn't there for those models. Look at the attempt at the EV Hummer, it's a joke. My sample doesn't have to be random, 10 years ago I could go…

Any reason that Norway’s car brand popularity is a big deal in the larger scheme of things?

Re: Tesla's next-gen electric motors will get rid of rare earth elements

#90

Why this is important: If successful, this contributes towards the reduction of national security risk around rare earth supplies and supply chain located in a possibly unfriendly nation state (major deposits are in Russia and China) and also means you don’t have to establish rare earth mines or supply chains in your own countries (capital and environmental concerns). It’s a big deal! Also, just as newer battery chem…

As far as I am aware, there is nothing rare about "rare earth metals". The only reason the west relies on places like China and Russia is because refining them is very very polluting, producing a lot of toxic by products. So we either do that locally and pay 100x more to fund the clean up after. Or we import from China and Russia where they apparently don't mind everyone getting poisoned. So this isn't really anythin…

The main reason this is looked at is that, while you are right in saying these materials resources are well distributed, China has been a major supplier for decades, buying out all their big competitors. The result is that they are way ahead of anyone else in the engineering processes to extract, process and transform these elements into viable products at scale.

If China were to stop selling them, everyone else would have a lot of difficulties replacing them right away and would need at least 5-10 years to pick up the pace.

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