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Tesla's next-gen electric motors will get rid of rare earth elements

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Re: Tesla's next-gen electric motors will get rid of rare earth elements

#71

Post by newaccount74 »

hulitu wrote: post #59
schiffern wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>just as newer battery chemistries moved away from cobalt Tesla seems to be the leader here. Per Investor Day[0] and other sources, they - developed low-cobalt and low-nickel cathodes, to reduce scarce battery metals - increased overall vehicle efficiency to allow iron cathodes which are earth-abundant - consolidated electronic modules to reduce microchips and wiring - are soon switching to 48V, to further reduce low…

> Are any other manufacturers pushing as hard here? Why would they. Most of those things are not sustainable. You don't want alluminium wires in your car.

I would assume those "high voltage conductors" are more like rigid bus bars, and not flexible wires.

Edit: Judging by the picture on this article [1] I am wrong.

[1]: https://hackaday.com/2022/01/13/exploring-tesla-model-s-high...

Re: Tesla's next-gen electric motors will get rid of rare earth elements

#73

Post by jasongill »

TheLoafOfBread wrote: post #60
hulitu wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Are any other manufacturers pushing as hard here? Why would they. Most of those things are not sustainable. You don't want alluminium wires in your car.

It is really funny when West is discovering magic of cheap aluminum for wires, while former Eastern Block is ripping aluminum wires from walls because it is no.1 reason for fires.

Aluminum is perfectly fine as a conductor, and perfectly safe. In the USA, we've used aluminum for most of our power transmission and distribution since the beginning of "the grid". Everything from the power plant to the meter at your home is connected with aluminum.

Where aluminum causes fires is due to the fact that it expands and contracts more than copper does, and it can oxidize and corrode when not properly cared for (for example, when dissimilar metals are used, or when exposed aluminum wire ends are not properly coated).

We can assume that someone at Tesla is familiar with the properties of aluminum and can insure that they are using the right connectors to mitigate these issues. (or at least, we can hope)

Re: Tesla's next-gen electric motors will get rid of rare earth elements

#74

Post by cunidev »

sidcool wrote: post #67

Love Tesla or hate Tesla. Their engineering chops are unmatched. Be it hardware, software or manufacturing engineering.

I mean, most Tesla engineering hires are thankfully smarter than their management - not that they don't have some great competition out there though (Merc, Porsche, etc.)

Re: Tesla's next-gen electric motors will get rid of rare earth elements

#75

Post by LatteLazy »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #2

Why this is important: If successful, this contributes towards the reduction of national security risk around rare earth supplies and supply chain located in a possibly unfriendly nation state (major deposits are in Russia and China) and also means you don’t have to establish rare earth mines or supply chains in your own countries (capital and environmental concerns). It’s a big deal! Also, just as newer battery chem…

As far as I am aware, there is nothing rare about "rare earth metals". The only reason the west relies on places like China and Russia is because refining them is very very polluting, producing a lot of toxic by products. So we either do that locally and pay 100x more to fund the clean up after. Or we import from China and Russia where they apparently don't mind everyone getting poisoned.

So this isn't really anything to do with national security. It's a better moral outcome with some economic trade off...

Re: Tesla's next-gen electric motors will get rid of rare earth elements

#76

Post by mikojan »

albertopv wrote: post #70
senttoschool wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Maybe bc China steal other countries tech (countless examples). Or blackmail countries [1]. Or kidnaps people [2]. Or reeducate people because of their ethnicity and religion [3]. Or still declares herself as a WTO developing country while having a space station all alone. [4] [1] https://it.euronews.com/my-europe/2021/05/07/il-montenegro-l... [2] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jan/18/china-forced-2... [3] ht…

Quite the list. Wait until I have introduced you to an inconspicuous country called the United States of America.

Re: Tesla's next-gen electric motors will get rid of rare earth elements

#77

Post by bigtex »

schiffern wrote: post #31
toomuchtodo wrote: post #2

Why this is important: If successful, this contributes towards the reduction of national security risk around rare earth supplies and supply chain located in a possibly unfriendly nation state (major deposits are in Russia and China) and also means you don’t have to establish rare earth mines or supply chains in your own countries (capital and environmental concerns). It’s a big deal! Also, just as newer battery chem…

>just as newer battery chemistries moved away from cobalt Tesla seems to be the leader here. Per Investor Day[0] and other sources, they - developed low-cobalt and low-nickel cathodes, to reduce scarce battery metals - increased overall vehicle efficiency to allow iron cathodes which are earth-abundant - consolidated electronic modules to reduce microchips and wiring - are soon switching to 48V, to further reduce low…

Have they delivered the robotaxis that were promised several years ago?

Re: Tesla's next-gen electric motors will get rid of rare earth elements

#78

Post by chollida1 »

TheLoafOfBread wrote: post #60
hulitu wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Are any other manufacturers pushing as hard here? Why would they. Most of those things are not sustainable. You don't want alluminium wires in your car.

It is really funny when West is discovering magic of cheap aluminum for wires, while former Eastern Block is ripping aluminum wires from walls because it is no.1 reason for fires.

> It is really funny when West is discovering magic of cheap aluminum for wires, while former Eastern Block is ripping aluminum wires from walls because it is no.1 reason for fires.

Aluminum was used for a short time in the west for household wiring and was quickly outlawed.

Re: Tesla's next-gen electric motors will get rid of rare earth elements

#79

Post by dwighttk »

LatteLazy wrote: post #75
toomuchtodo wrote: post #2

Why this is important: If successful, this contributes towards the reduction of national security risk around rare earth supplies and supply chain located in a possibly unfriendly nation state (major deposits are in Russia and China) and also means you don’t have to establish rare earth mines or supply chains in your own countries (capital and environmental concerns). It’s a big deal! Also, just as newer battery chem…

As far as I am aware, there is nothing rare about "rare earth metals". The only reason the west relies on places like China and Russia is because refining them is very very polluting, producing a lot of toxic by products. So we either do that locally and pay 100x more to fund the clean up after. Or we import from China and Russia where they apparently don't mind everyone getting poisoned. So this isn't really anythin…

There can be more than one reason to do something… perhaps security isn’t the primary, but it is still in there. It is the startup time that relates to security.

Re: Tesla's next-gen electric motors will get rid of rare earth elements

#80

Post by jillesvangurp »

cunidev wrote: post #74
sidcool wrote: post #67

Love Tesla or hate Tesla. Their engineering chops are unmatched. Be it hardware, software or manufacturing engineering.

I mean, most Tesla engineering hires are thankfully smarter than their management - not that they don't have some great competition out there though (Merc, Porsche, etc.)

I think a lot of this stuff boils down to Elon Musk being absolutely ruthlessly uncompromising in his hiring and technology vision and management.

His management style may not be agreeable to people and he gets criticized for that a lot obviously. But the technical vision that he drives at Tesla, SpaceX, and his other companies are undeniable what makes these companies so valuable.

And it's exactly where his competitor's performance is less than stellar. Particularly at the companies you mention.

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