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Tesla's next-gen electric motors will get rid of rare earth elements

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Re: Tesla's next-gen electric motors will get rid of rare earth elements

#51

Post by defrost »

workingdog wrote: post #45
senttoschool wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find it hard to think that the US (With it's many, many fuck-ups) is the only, let alone the -worst- guilty party in the last 100 years. Slavery and native American genocides are pretty bad - as well as the countless countries US has invaded/bombed. But anyways, are we trying to estimate which country has done more bad in the last 300 years? China or US? And are you willing to become more pro-China if we conclude t…

>>Slavery and native American genocides are pretty bad Any student of history would understand that China colonizing the north american continent would have been much much worse for Native Americans. There currently are slaves in China right now.

I think we can all agree that slavery is bad.

Hopefully it will be ended in North America sometime soon (fingers crossed).

‘Slavery by any name is wrong’: the push to end forced labor in prisons

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/sep/27/slavery-loop...

Slavery and the U.S. Prison System

https://www.globalpolicyjournal.com/blog/06/05/2021/slavery-...

Contemporary slavery in the United States

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contemporary_slavery_in_the_Un...

Re: Tesla's next-gen electric motors will get rid of rare earth elements

#52

Post by HWR_14 »

partiallypro wrote: post #29
toomuchtodo wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ehh, Tesla just sold their 4 millionth vehicle (waited until then for investor day so they could flex), are breaking ground in Mexico shortly on their new factory, and are rapidly approaching $100B/year in revenue at a 25-30% margin (while other EV startups are teetering near death and legacies are slow to catch up). Constructive skepticism is fine, but strong evidence of their innovation capacity is available (espec…

I have been a huge skeptic of Tesla, but when you visit Europe the roads are FULL of Teslas, and in the US the roads are now full of them too. In Europe it's more bizarre because generally those consumers were sticking with European brands. Seeing Fords or Toyotas is very rare there, but Teslas are everywhere. That made me a believer. However, I do think the company is probably overvalued. I think Elon Musk does a lo…

It's possible that where you live and visit is full of Teslas, but that might not be a random sample.

But for a while, you had to get a Tesla to get a pure EV. The real question is, as competitors come online, are people likely to purchase another Tesla or try something new?

Re: Tesla's next-gen electric motors will get rid of rare earth elements

#53

Post by to11mtm »

senttoschool wrote: post #50
workingdog wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>Slavery and native American genocides are pretty bad Any student of history would understand that China colonizing the north american continent would have been much much worse for Native Americans. There currently are slaves in China right now.

Oh wow. Worse than the complete annihilation of an entire large continent of people? Are we now blaming China for genocide of Native Americans too?

No, they are pointing out that for all of your bolstering, China today is doing things that the global purview thinks are far worse than what the US is doing, again, today.

Please remember that comments on HN are meant to be in good faith towards the discussion of the article, and regardless of any factual inconsistencies that may or may not be present in your statements, they are off topic and potentially trolling.

Re: Tesla's next-gen electric motors will get rid of rare earth elements

#54

Post by partiallypro »

HWR_14 wrote: post #52
partiallypro wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have been a huge skeptic of Tesla, but when you visit Europe the roads are FULL of Teslas, and in the US the roads are now full of them too. In Europe it's more bizarre because generally those consumers were sticking with European brands. Seeing Fords or Toyotas is very rare there, but Teslas are everywhere. That made me a believer. However, I do think the company is probably overvalued. I think Elon Musk does a lo…

It's possible that where you live and visit is full of Teslas, but that might not be a random sample. But for a while, you had to get a Tesla to get a pure EV. The real question is, as competitors come online, are people likely to purchase another Tesla or try something new?

EV start-ups competing with Tesla are all struggling. It's very likely that Rivian will simply go bankrupt in the next few years. The big automakers are also struggling, largely because their best sellers are bigger vehicles, at least in the US and charging & battery tech just isn't there for those models. Look at the attempt at the EV Hummer, it's a joke.

My sample doesn't have to be random, 10 years ago I could go to a large wealthy city in Europe and only see European cars. Again, that is/was the norm. You would not see Toyotas or Fords, etc. Tesla has been made into an exception. So far the only European brand that even has an EV that can compare with Tesla's is Porche and it's 2x the price. If I'm not mistaken Tesla is now Norway's number one make, which seems like a big deal.

This could change, but I don't see it changing anytime soon given how bad some of the competition is. I was excited about the EV F150 but it too has shown they are still very far behind. Still don't think Telsa should be worth more than every major automaker combined. I'm not arguing anyone should buy their stock.

Re: Tesla's next-gen electric motors will get rid of rare earth elements

#55

Post by HyperSane »

tauwauwau wrote: post #15
abakker wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China is a currency manipulator, human rights abuser, and a non-democratic state. that is a country we have done business with, and looked past, but the US can't be "friends" with terms like that. The relentless anti china propaganda has nothing on the BS that china's state-owned media has said about the US over the last decade. The AVERAGE issue of global times is worse than trump's rhetoric.

Moral judgement in international relations is not a necessity. Please think of other countries that US is allies which with same attributes mentioned in your comments. i.e. Saudi Arabia. I'm not saying that it's right or wrong, what I do mean is there are different rules for engagement between countries than people.

"Moral judgement in international relations is not a necessity."

Does this apply to Germany during WWII?

Re: Tesla's next-gen electric motors will get rid of rare earth elements

#56

Post by Gibbon1 »

senttoschool wrote: post #27
Ankaios wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And yet, the US actually has allies. After all the crap the US has done, it still has allies. What? Why? Oh, because it's all about economics and power. Interesting thesis. At the same time, China has few allies. Does that mean China has a poor economy and little power?

Interesting thesis. At the same time, China has few allies. Does that mean China has a poor economy and little power? Maybe it's news to you but China has been poor for nearly 150+ years. In the past, China had the highest GDP in the world. But the opium trade, western wars, caused it to become as poor as it did. It's only in the last 10 years or so that China's economy has been big enough to garner more allies. Even…

In the early 20th century the US was opposed to European colonialism in China, opposed to the Japanese invasion of China. And opposed to the Communist takeover of China. The US is also opposed to Xi's dictatorship an threats towards Taiwan. And the Uyghur genocide.

So China does have a friend in the US. But Xi doesn't.

Re: Tesla's next-gen electric motors will get rid of rare earth elements

#57

Post by marak830 »

tauwauwau wrote: post #15
abakker wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China is a currency manipulator, human rights abuser, and a non-democratic state. that is a country we have done business with, and looked past, but the US can't be "friends" with terms like that. The relentless anti china propaganda has nothing on the BS that china's state-owned media has said about the US over the last decade. The AVERAGE issue of global times is worse than trump's rhetoric.

Moral judgement in international relations is not a necessity. Please think of other countries that US is allies which with same attributes mentioned in your comments. i.e. Saudi Arabia. I'm not saying that it's right or wrong, what I do mean is there are different rules for engagement between countries than people.

Moral judgements should be a larger part of I ternstional relationships.

That they are not, for a fiscal treason, is an absolute travesty.

We should - all - be demanding that our trading partners stand up for the things we believe in.

To sweep a genocide or abhorrent human rights record under the table - without even attempting to make a comment - is a sign of weakness, that every country has. For profit. Personally, my standards are higher than making a profit with one group, especially when there are always more groups.

No country is perfect, but shouldn't we try to convince others and as such, hold ourselves to a higher standard?

Re: Tesla's next-gen electric motors will get rid of rare earth elements

#58

Post by hackerlight »

senttoschool wrote: post #47
hackerlight wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're talking about the past. The US isn't currently carpet bombing Vietnam, it isn't currently allowing slavery. China, currently in 2023, is all the things the above poster says it is. A sabre rattling dictatorship that is intentionally oppressing its minorities. Chinese people are awesome but the Chinese state can go to hell. This isn't to excuse Trump's sinophobia. He can go to hell too.

Chinese people are awesome but the Chinese state can go to hell. Chinese people support the CCP. Most Chinese citizens are pro-CCP. So if you have a negative view of the CCP, then you should have a negative view of Chinese too. But you're probably wondering why Chinese people support the CCP? It's because the CCP improved the lives of 1.4 billion people and is still improving their lives. GDP per capita went from $31…

> So if you have a negative view of the CCP, then you should have a negative view of Chinese too.

I disagree with the (admittedly large) subset of Chinese people who support the CCP, but me having a negative view of them as people doesn't follow from that.

> It's because the CCP improved the lives of 1.4 billion people and is still improving their lives. GDP per capita went from $317 in 1990 to $12,000+ in 2022. And why would they overthrow the CCP now?

I didn't claim that the CCP did nothing good and was all bad. There's clearly far worse alternatives than the CCP. Also, it's not accurate to attribute all of China's current success to the current CCP. A lot of it was the seeds planted thanks to the economic liberalization in the preceding few decades when the CCP was more liberal than it is today.

> But if the CCP needs to be overthrown and is no longer working for Chinese people, they will overthrow it.

Authoritarian states create mechanisms that make them difficult to overthrow.

Re: Tesla's next-gen electric motors will get rid of rare earth elements

#59

Post by hulitu »

schiffern wrote: post #31
toomuchtodo wrote: post #2

Why this is important: If successful, this contributes towards the reduction of national security risk around rare earth supplies and supply chain located in a possibly unfriendly nation state (major deposits are in Russia and China) and also means you don’t have to establish rare earth mines or supply chains in your own countries (capital and environmental concerns). It’s a big deal! Also, just as newer battery chem…

>just as newer battery chemistries moved away from cobalt Tesla seems to be the leader here. Per Investor Day[0] and other sources, they - developed low-cobalt and low-nickel cathodes, to reduce scarce battery metals - increased overall vehicle efficiency to allow iron cathodes which are earth-abundant - consolidated electronic modules to reduce microchips and wiring - are soon switching to 48V, to further reduce low…

> Are any other manufacturers pushing as hard here?

Why would they. Most of those things are not sustainable.

You don't want alluminium wires in your car.

Re: Tesla's next-gen electric motors will get rid of rare earth elements

#60

Post by TheLoafOfBread »

hulitu wrote: post #59
schiffern wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>just as newer battery chemistries moved away from cobalt Tesla seems to be the leader here. Per Investor Day[0] and other sources, they - developed low-cobalt and low-nickel cathodes, to reduce scarce battery metals - increased overall vehicle efficiency to allow iron cathodes which are earth-abundant - consolidated electronic modules to reduce microchips and wiring - are soon switching to 48V, to further reduce low…

> Are any other manufacturers pushing as hard here? Why would they. Most of those things are not sustainable. You don't want alluminium wires in your car.

It is really funny when West is discovering magic of cheap aluminum for wires, while former Eastern Block is ripping aluminum wires from walls because it is no.1 reason for fires.
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