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Denver’s e-bike subsidy program produced more new riders, fewer car trips

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Re: Denver’s e-bike subsidy program produced more new riders, fewer car trips

#71

Post by ragebol »

lostmsu wrote: post #59
flyingpenguin wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The amount of public real-estate we dedicate exclusively to enabling peoples usage of their private property in the united states (and to lesser extents all other countries really) is absolutely absurd. I have considered just walking slowly in random lanes of traffic while in downtown areas recently. On what grounds do you need thousands of acres of space? Speed limits should often be 4-5mph and space usage should be…

How would you deliver furniture and maintenance machinery to your place?

Fine, delivery vehicles only, in the city center

Re: Denver’s e-bike subsidy program produced more new riders, fewer car trips

#72

Post by chitowneats »

rainsford wrote: post #37
d_sem wrote: post #4

When you factor in the reduced capital costs, carbon emissions, noise pollution, traffic, wear on infrastructure, health benefits, etc of electric bicycles the opportunity cost of car ownership over e-bike adoption is tremendous. The average cost of owning a car in 2022 is $10,728 per year: a figure which blows my mind.(edit: Source bankrate.com, the top hit on google) As a personal anecdote, my household has gone fr…

I'd also argue the potential savings and advantages of e-bikes are undervalued because the bike infrastructure in even the best US cities isn't particularly great. I've spent a fair amount of time in Denver, and while there are some good spots and ongoing improvements, the bike infrastructure in the city is honestly a lot worse than you might expect. Better bike infrastructure would almost certainly increase the e-bi…

Denver is trying. But they have so far to go. I wish them luck and success. The driving culture is strong.

Re: Denver’s e-bike subsidy program produced more new riders, fewer car trips

#73

Post by rgmerk »

mc32 wrote: post #20
d_sem wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My source is bankrate.com (top google search hit) which doesn't provide an exact line item breakdown. Here are some parameters they consider: - Average Insurance ~ $1,771 per year - Average Car Monthly Loan ~ $700 per month - Average repair costs ~ $1,425 - Depreciation of initial investment. (google search returns an average new car - cost to be ~$50,000 USD in 2022) - Gas - Registration

Wow, I didn't realize the average price for a new car was so high! Are people mostly buying electrics, full sized pickup trucks and luxury cars these days? Whatever happened to mid-sized and compact cars? Interestingly just looked and old frumpy minivans are right up there in price too!!

If you have a look at the top selling vehicles, you’ve basically got it right:

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/g39628015/best-selling-car...

Re: Denver’s e-bike subsidy program produced more new riders, fewer car trips

#74

Post by convolvatron »

komali2 wrote: post #65
PaulsWallet wrote: post #22

My problem with e-bikes is my problem with regular bikes. Riding on the sidewalk is generally not permitted and I don't trust drivers in cars to not murder me while driving in the street.

As a cyclist for the last 15 years I get this. At the end of the day you gotta keep to what you think will keep you alive. I can't be sure of the exact mechanisms or whether I'm observing behavior correctly, but a strategy that seemed to be shaking out in SF is cyclists aggressively standing up for our rights, by for example one person blocking cars from making illegal rights while the rest of the bicyclists rode alo…

that thing where they stop and insist you cross first even though they have the right away really bothers me. it takes longer for both of us and creates a really uncomfortable ambiguity about whether they are actually going to start.

I've just started going up on the sidewalk and dropping a foot to make it clear I'm just not going to cross...or turn if it makes sense

I guess its not as bad the mission post pandemic. seems like people are really blowing through stop signs now

Re: Denver’s e-bike subsidy program produced more new riders, fewer car trips

#75

Post by maxerickson »

cycomanic wrote: post #70
hathawsh wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Registration for my 1999 car was only $70 per year and there were no property taxes. Insurance was a more significant cost and harder to estimate, but still not major. Regardless, I agree that these expenses add up fast. If I replaced my regular commutes with a $3000 e-bike that lasts 2 years, and I spent $2k per year on Ubers and rentals for various things that require a vehicle, I would come out ahead.

Why would your ebike only last 2 years? I would say even if someone doesn't take care at all for their bike it should last 4 years minimum (and much longer on average).

The idea is to ridiculously overestimate the e-bike cost. If you do that and still come out ahead, there's a good case for it.

Re: Denver’s e-bike subsidy program produced more new riders, fewer car trips

#76

Post by juve1996 »

avianlyric wrote: post #47
jupp0r wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The major issue is safety. Bikers are much more (3.4x to 11.5x) likely to be fatally injured per mile travelled compared to people driving cars [1]. Better bike infrastructure is needed. [1] https://bicycleuniverse.com/bicycle-safety-almanac/

Yet despite that, the improvement in fitness from commuting by bike rather than car, is so great that switching to bike will statistically increase your lifespan in just about every city in the world. That’s after including the negative impacts of increased exposure to air pollution, and higher likelihood of being fatally injured while commuting. https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/cycli...

> is so great that switching to bike will statistically increase your lifespan

Yea but so can a large number of other activities that let you keep your car.

Re: Denver’s e-bike subsidy program produced more new riders, fewer car trips

#77

Post by alwayslikethis »

I wonder how well would small motorcycles or scooters (not the stand-up kick scooter type, but the step-through motorcycle) work for the same purpose. They have many of the advantages that e-bikes do, but largely does not require dedicated infrastructure because they can travel at speeds similar to cars.

Re: Denver’s e-bike subsidy program produced more new riders, fewer car trips

#78

Post by avianlyric »

juve1996 wrote: post #76
avianlyric wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yet despite that, the improvement in fitness from commuting by bike rather than car, is so great that switching to bike will statistically increase your lifespan in just about every city in the world. That’s after including the negative impacts of increased exposure to air pollution, and higher likelihood of being fatally injured while commuting. https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/cycli...

> is so great that switching to bike will statistically increase your lifespan Yea but so can a large number of other activities that let you keep your car.

Well sure, if keeping your car is important to you, then do what makes you happy.

For me switching to a bike meant more exercise without having to commit any extra time. Just swap on type of commute for another, duration didn’t even change due to congestion which is easy to cycle past.

Given the US rather extreme obesity problem, I would suggest that it needs all the help it can get when it comes to improving fitness.

Re: Denver’s e-bike subsidy program produced more new riders, fewer car trips

#79

Post by gameshot911 »

sokoloff wrote: post #67
crazygringo wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Following the links [1] with quotes I've selected, the answers seem to be mainly: 1) You forgot about insurance 2) Your car's value was in 1999 dollars, not 2022 -- $1 in 1999 was worth $1.71 in 2022, so you need to adjust your yearly cost upwards into 2022 dollars 3) You haven't mentioned loan interest, which is additional cost if you financed it, which the average person needs to do 4) If $22K was below average for…

There’s little reason to carry full coverage on a car over 7 years old and, classic cars aside, almost no reason past 10 years.

>There’s little reason to carry full coverage on a car over 7 years old

Can you elucidate? I assume by 'full coverage' you mean comprehensive (you get paid if your car gets damaged), vs liability-only (other person gets paid if you damage their dar).

Doing some very approximative math, my 7 year old car is worth $12k, and adding comprehensive insurance costs an additional $500/year. Why is it so obvious I wouldn't want that?

Re: Denver’s e-bike subsidy program produced more new riders, fewer car trips

#80

Post by avianlyric »

lostmsu wrote: post #59
flyingpenguin wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The amount of public real-estate we dedicate exclusively to enabling peoples usage of their private property in the united states (and to lesser extents all other countries really) is absolutely absurd. I have considered just walking slowly in random lanes of traffic while in downtown areas recently. On what grounds do you need thousands of acres of space? Speed limits should often be 4-5mph and space usage should be…

How would you deliver furniture and maintenance machinery to your place?

Does furniture deliver and maintenance machinery only fit down 6 lane highways, or do you think it might fit down a single lane road?
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