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Nokia launches DIY repairable budget Android phone

theguardian.com

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Re: Nokia launches DIY repairable budget Android phone

#371

Post by openplatypus »

tomComb wrote: post #248
openplatypus wrote: post #202

> Security updates: 3 years of monthly security updates That is such a let-down! If Nokia is serious about sustainability, it needs to make it 5y+. I get it, it is not easy. But with the proliferation of malware and exploits, after 3y (since release, not purchase) this phone is nothing but a liability.

That just refers to the security updates that require a full firmware update. I think people get focussed on that because they’re used to the iPhone where that’s only way to fix security issues. On android, the majority of security issues are patched immediately and silently through the play store, so that continues pretty much for the life of the phone. In other words, updates are much less important on android than…

Never had an iPhone.

I don’t know what comes through Play Store, only thing it tells me is that specific app was updated.

All I know is that my cell phone vendors tells I am not getting more security updates.

Consumers should not understand CVEs to feel safe.

Re: Nokia launches DIY repairable budget Android phone

#372

Post by Nextgrid »

hajola wrote: post #305
WhackyIdeas wrote: post #250

I have an iPhone Pro Max 13, and you can mark my words - I am selling this and getting a couple of these G22’s. This sounds fantastic. I cannot wait.

Curious, what is the reason you would consider buying more than 1?

Spare parts?

Re: Nokia launches DIY repairable budget Android phone

#373

Post by TazeTSchnitzel »

tomrod wrote: post #354
mlinksva wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The positive (and there's plenty of criticism; search and read) point being made about iphone is that it has a longer support duration. This seems highly complementary to repairability -- both seem important to maximize useful life -- and thus an entirely fair point, no? I'm recently on my 4th Android smartphone in 12 years (Galaxy S, Moto G, Pixel 2, Pixel 7) and would be still on the Pixel 2 if not for lack of upda…

> This seems highly complementary to repairability -- both seem important to maximize useful life -- and thus an entirely fair point, no? Repairability is more that once you buy it, you actually own it. Apple does not support this model. Real repairability is when you can hack all components of hardware and software in your domain (which precludes hacking against cell towers, ISP telecom equipment, etc.).

Nor do most Android vendors.

Re: Nokia launches DIY repairable budget Android phone

#374

Post by tomComb »

nevi-me wrote: post #334
morsch wrote: post #270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's the security bulletin for January: https://source.android.com/docs/security/bulletin/2023-01-01 How do I determine which, if any, of these is fixed via the Play store update mechanism?

The bulletin specifies only CVE-2023-20912 as being fixed by Play Store. https://source.android.com/docs/security/bulletin/2023-01-01...

I'm puzzled ... I can understand why the BLE drivers would still require a firmware update (and that is fine since drivers for older hardware shouldn't be much of a problem), but why wouldn't all of the Framework vulnerabilities be handled via Play Store updates. I believe that all of the Framework is updatable in this way. Perhaps it's because that is not true of Android 10 so they need to address it in a firmware update anyway?

Re: Nokia launches DIY repairable budget Android phone

#375

Post by _cenw »

carlmr wrote: post #341
crabbone wrote: post #320

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I only ever had one smartphone, and that's Samsung Galaxy S7 (bought in the year it hit the market: 2016). I will have to replace it very soon though because my banking app is going to stop supporting the Android version it has, and Samsung doesn't provide upgrades. But... it's not really Android's fault anymore than this is Samsung's fault. The phone itself is in a good condition. The battery holds the charge for al…

>Whichever this is, it shows that it's not really a problem of Android It kind of is though because Android allows for phone brands to tweak the stock OS and stop updating even if the OS itself is getting updates. If Android forced all manufacturers to use the stock OS with updates, the phone could still get updates, no?

At least when I still used Android, some SoC manufacturers made unmaintainable hacky patches for one specific kernel tree (and sometimes the manufacturer would then add more customizations to make it even worse) and you'd be stuck on that kernel forever.

Re: Nokia launches DIY repairable budget Android phone

#376

Post by uallo »

tomComb wrote: post #353
uallo wrote: post #323

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> so that continues pretty much for the life of the phone. I'm on a Pixel 1 with Android 10. Last security update it got was from October 2019 which is about three years after the phone was introduced. Is this supposed to be different on newer Android versions?

That refers to the formal (full firmware) updates, I'm talking about security updates that get pushed to the phone without you having to do anything. It started with the browser component many years ago, and has grown its coverage with each version. The limitations are mainly in the kernel, but they now even do graphics drivers this way (though that requires vendor cooperation, unlike everything else), but you wouldn…

> That refers to the formal (full firmware) updates, I'm talking about security updates that get pushed to the phone without you having to do anything.

It is called "Android security patch level", that is not a full firmware update. It may still be something else than you have in mind, though. (How) can I check the patch level of the security updates you are relating to?

Re: Nokia launches DIY repairable budget Android phone

#377

Post by Nextgrid »

charcircuit wrote: post #299
PaulKeeble wrote: post #20

5 years for parts is better than nothing but its still a lot of e-waste. Ideally given screens and ports and batteries are something that have been around for decades and will be around for decades more in similar ways it would be nice to extend this out longer. With progress on CPUs/GPUs slowing we do need to start to consider much longer usable life times for computer products and having obsolence built in at 5 yea…

>but its still a lot of e-waste Phones are a tiny amount of waste. Trying to get a few extra years out of one is a microoptimization in reducing one's waste output.

I'm not sure if the physical volume of the phone in a landfill is the only issue to consider. What about all the energy and resources used to manufacture it?

Re: Nokia launches DIY repairable budget Android phone

#378

Post by BLKNSLVR »

squarefoot wrote: post #355

Close, but no cigar. After 3 years or 2 major Android versions it still becomes an unsupported doorstop doomed to rot in a drawer until the owner throws it into a landfill. I totally understand not wanting to put resources into supporting old products, so the punchline should have been "...and after support is ceased, we unlock the bootloader". Now that would have made it interesting.

Bootloader should be unlockable, via a process that prevents accidentally doing it, from release.

Custom ROM from day 1 may delay the need to replace the battery.

Re: Nokia launches DIY repairable budget Android phone

#379

Post by ENGNR »

jimnotgym wrote: post #162

Wow HN. I really interesting new product comes out, a really interesting turn in the right to repair debate, and a return of a famous brand. And instead of talking about that, there are a series of threads about how an iphone costing 5 times as much and is famously difficult to repair is a better phone than this. Get a grip! Can we not have a least one conversation without Apple fanbois wading in?

It’s the meta rules:

I agree - upvote

I disagree - leave a comment

But to buck the trend - go Nokia, a phone like an x86 is a great thing for hackers and to break monopolies, fingers crossed it finds and connects with a large consumer segment

Re: Nokia launches DIY repairable budget Android phone

#380

Post by roywashere »

leoedin wrote: post #210
mlinksva wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The positive (and there's plenty of criticism; search and read) point being made about iphone is that it has a longer support duration. This seems highly complementary to repairability -- both seem important to maximize useful life -- and thus an entirely fair point, no? I'm recently on my 4th Android smartphone in 12 years (Galaxy S, Moto G, Pixel 2, Pixel 7) and would be still on the Pixel 2 if not for lack of upda…

I think I've had 3 phones in the time my wife has had 1 iPhone 7. Every time I buy a new phone I'm like "but Android is cheaper", but I'm fairly sure the lifetime cost of "phone" is in her favour at this point. I think my next phone will be an iPhone.

I have two teenagers. One has an iPhone and he needed a screen replacement already three times. The other is on android and he just had his screen broken and bought a new one, a cheap Samsung phone. Screen replacements are just as expensive on both ecosystems. But sometimes it is nice to be able to get an affordable, fresh phone, and not have to worry as much about loss or theft

Also the top tier Samsungs are more expensive than iPhones nowadays

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