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One Year into the War in Ukraine

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Re: One Year into the War in Ukraine

#61

Post by ninjagoo »

freefrog334433 wrote: post #48
yks wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Appeasing the aggressors by giving up territories is not going to stop the war long term until there is nothing to give up. Not only history shows it again and again, but the basic psychology behind this is clear after a first encounter with a bully which many people do as soon as kindergarten. The only outcome of this faux pacifism is the destruction of Ukrainian state with the following butchering of Ukrainian cult…

No appeasement has been the reason for fighting wars since WW2. This shows a misunderstanding of the wars. In Vietnam, it was called the domino theory, except Vietnam was a war of independence. The war on terror - invade Iraq so the terrorist don't come here. The Russians are not going to invade NATO countries.

> No appeasement has been the reason for fighting wars since WW2.

Do you have any evidence for this statement?

> The Russians are not going to invade NATO countries.

Isn't this what everyone, including Russia, minus the US Administration, was saying about Ukraine prior to Feb 24, 2022? [1][2]

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_Russian_invasion_of_Ukrai... [2] https://www.cbsnews.com/news/russia-ukraine-putin-invasion-a...

Re: One Year into the War in Ukraine

#62

Post by notahacker »

peyton wrote: post #19
SketchySeaBeast wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Putin's stated intentions, which were, and I quote "And for this we will strive for the demilitarisation and denazification of Ukraine". So even though they were stated clearly, they made little sense if you assume they aren't trying to take over Ukraine.

What do you mean? His speech [1] is really clear. I’m extremely disappointed in the reporting by the news here. [1]: http://en.kremlin.ru/events/president/news/67843

He's also been really clear on considering Ukraine to be a mistaken creation of the Soviet Union whose sovereignty is only possible if shared with Russia, and on formally integrating partially conquered regions into Russia, so I think we can probably disregard him being really clear about not wanting to occupy the country his armies are currently occupying large parts of and only acting in self defence...

Re: One Year into the War in Ukraine

#63

Post by twiss »

ROTMetro wrote: post #27
FollowingTheDao wrote: post #8

"The current War in Ukraine is, after all, a continuation of what I’ve seen termed the War in the Donbas, which began in April of 2014. " I was happy to read that since it is constantly ignored by American media.

You mean the conflict in Donbas that killed 25 people in 2021, mainly from mines? Hardly justification for Russia's invasion.

Donbas is part of Ukraine. Grandparent isn't claiming that the conflict there is justification for Russia's invasion, rather, it's part of it.

Re: One Year into the War in Ukraine

#64

Post by ChuckNorris89 »

pydry wrote: post #25
notahacker wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't really see Transnistria as remotely useful as a bargaining chip. Sure it's propped up by Russia and would eventually be integrated into Russia under Putin's wildest imperial fantasies, but it's not Russia, its people mostly aren't Russian and I'm not sure it's all that valuable either. All a Ukrainian invasion of Transnistria would do is give Putin's claims about Ukrainian aggression some veneer of legitimacy a…

>its people mostly aren't Russian They basically are. They speak Russian and act like Russians. I doubt they'd mind being annexed.

>They basically are.

They don't have russian passorts. How can they be russians?

Re: One Year into the War in Ukraine

#65

Post by anextio »

int_19h wrote: post #54
anextio wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They don't have to occupy the whole of Ukraine to do that, they only have to defeat Ukraine's military and destroy NATO's materiel on the battlefield. If they intended to occupy the entire country they would need several million troops as well as legions of administrators ready to go, which would be visible. They most likely only plan to long-term occupy the parts of Ukraine where the majority of the population still…

The column that was rushing towards Kyiv consisted in large part of the Russian National Guard units - those are the guys whose primary purpose is to beat up people in opposition protests. And they had the anti-riot gear packed, as Ukrainians have found out when going through the wrecks. So, yes, they were absolutely planning to suppress civilian opposition to the occupation.

[flagged]

Re: One Year into the War in Ukraine

#66

Post by andrey123 »

RivieraKid wrote: post #56
andrey123 wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Last time I checked there was more than 1 million in internal forces (militia, rosgvardia, troops, probably some others). They are armed, trained specifically to suppress and loyal. I (looking from the inside) highly doubt that they will change sides unless they stop receiving paycheck. Of course, some regions are a bit special in this respect but they are not in the central Russia.

What is the mood regarding the war in your social circle? How often do they support it?

Zero war support across friends/colleagues but maybe up to 30% support on the streets (taxi drivers, cashiers, mechanics, neighbors, ...). In small cities there shall be more supporters (less Internet, more TV).

Re: One Year into the War in Ukraine

#67

Post by foverzar »

TylerE wrote: post #46
risyachka wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Russia is a military state. They have about a million of police and other military forces inside the country. And internal separatist movements are so tiny you can handle them with 1/1000 of the force they have.

They also thought they could take Ukraine in about the time it took Hitler to blitz into Poland.

That is an assumption.

Re: One Year into the War in Ukraine

#68

Post by I_complete_me »

In fact Putin is completely correct in his attempt to retrieve Ukraine for Mother Russia and it is the West that is the aggressor.

Now, if you just had a visceral (negative) response to this, I am with you.

The point I am trying to make is that the Russian people seem to be equally incredulous to the idea that Russia itself is the aggressor. How is it that the Russian media has such a hold over them - in this day of the internet and other forms of communication?

And if Russia can have such a hold, why couldn't OUR government have such an equal hold over US. I want the war to end as much as anyone but I believe that only by informing the Russian people of this can there be real hope for peace and resolution. (And please forgive my naivety.)

Re: One Year into the War in Ukraine

#69

Post by bigdict »

ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #64
pydry wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>its people mostly aren't Russian They basically are. They speak Russian and act like Russians. I doubt they'd mind being annexed.

>They basically are. They don't have russian passorts. How can they be russians?

> They don't have russian passorts.

You clearly are not familiar with how things work in Transnistria.

Re: One Year into the War in Ukraine

#70

Post by gordian-mind »

kibwen wrote: post #38
scohesc wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It really does seem that way... I think the west is using Ukraine as a way to whittle down Russian military forces at the expense of Ukrainians and "Allied" military equipment (instead of some theoretical war where the US send their soldiers _and_ equipment on the field, and the resulting PR nightmares, etc. that would cause) - essentially weakening Russia's military to a point so that Russia can't respond as aggress…

> I wish the west would stay out of conflicts it doesn't have a stake in, and I wish Russia would stop attacking Ukraine. Unfortunately, since the latter has happened, there's no moral high ground to be gained by "staying out" of the conflict. Russia started this war. Russia could end it, today, by leaving.

[flagged]
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